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The trance formula (pg. 2)
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| Spirit5 |
You guys complain so much on here about trance being so formulaic. Sure I know it is. But so is a lot of music, as mentioned. Sure some DJs play anthem after anthem (George Acosta) but not all trance DJs play track after track of this stuff. Even some of the older trance still had this formula, it was just the effects used in the tracks and the melodies..made it more "hypnotic" sounding. Some tracks by Cosmic Baby, Cygnux X and Art of Trance had build ups and breakdowns. Anjunabeats's music doesn't all follow this same formula all of the time, and doesn't sound all a like. Same with some of the other labels. There are variety, just as there is sameness. I can hear from Static Blue's music that yeah it does have tracks with a lot of breakdowns, but if that's what he or other people like, then so be it.
Seriously, this formula is what "epic" trance is. Static Blue and other modern "epic" trance producers follow this formula because they produce epic trance. There is progressive trance that doesn't follow the same formula as much, there's prog-psy as well, and full on psy and such, and tech trance. But don't complain all the time about epic trance if you don't like it, this argument about it not being trance is getting quite old. Sure the vocal stuff out there like Lasgo, DJ Sammy, Ian van Dahl, Cascada..that is HIGHLY debatable whether they are trance (I don't think they are) but this stuff like Static Blue's music is. |
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| SPAWNmaster |
| quote: | Originally posted by Spirit5
You guys complain so much on here about trance being so formulaic. Sure I know it is. But so is a lot of music, as mentioned. If this old trance is so much better, then why do most of these well known trance DJs play some tracks in the formula of build, build up, breakdown, and then the climax of sorts. It also disregards most of the stuff known as trance. Sure some play anthem after anthem (George Acosta) but not all trance DJs play track after track of this stuff. Even some of the older trance still had this formula, it was just the effects used in the tracks and the melodies..made it more "hypnotic" sounding. Some tracks by Cosmic Baby, Cygnux X and Art of Trance had build ups and breakdowns.
Seriously, this formula is what "epic" trance is. Static Blue and other modern "epic" trance producers follow this formula because they produce epic trance. There is progressive trance that doesn't follow the same formula as much, there's prog-psy as well, and full on psy and such, and tech trance. But don't complain all the time about epic trance if you don't like it, this argument about it not being trance is getting quite old. Sure the vocal stuff out there like Lasgo, DJ Sammy, Ian van Dahl, Cascada..that is HIGHLY debatable whether they are trance (I don't think they are) but this stuff like Static Blue's music is. |
sorry but I'm not sure we're on the same page here. I respect your opinion because ofcourse not everyone will agree that a lot of EDM is garbage today - but there is no denying how it's all the same anymore. |
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| Spirit5 |
| quote: | Originally posted by SPAWNmaster
sorry but I'm not sure we're on the same page here. I respect your opinion because ofcourse not everyone will agree that a lot of EDM is garbage today - but there is no denying how it's all the same anymore. |
I actually am not really into EDM as much nowadays because of that reason. So don't get the impression i'm really that into the modern epic stuff or Static Blue's music. I'm just sick of the argument that all of this epic stuff is not trance..it's a type of trance called "epic" that follows the build up, breakdown formula. It would be nice if there was more variety but that's not to say variety doesn't exist. I am more into downtempo and ambient, not really EDM per say, and some deep, melodic prog house and trance.
I tend to take positions on here which sometimes gives people the impression I am some how still into ASOT, Armin, Epic Trance etc, but I just still appreciate some of it and listen to the older stuff still. I just like to have another point of view rather than join the "hate epic trance and ASOT" bandwaggon. I came here to talk about trance, and the trance that I got into in the later 90s..stuff I knew as trance, but there's so little actual discussion of trance other than psy on this board. So yeah i've grown out of it like other people on here, but that's not to say I don't like to talk about it.
I also wish people would just admit they don't like epic trance instead of constantly arguing about it, bashing it and trying to make it out to be like it's not trance. |
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| DJ Shibby |
Maybe you're listening to music on e speakers...
Those "Aahs" and "supersaws" sound like liquid gold to me, if they're done well. |
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| nefardec |
there's also a formula for minimal tech house, there's a formula especially for chunky tribal prog house, there's a formula for funky house, there's a formula for darkstep drum and bass, there's a formula for many genres
obviously trance is the most popular of these and so it gets the most criticism. particularly it bothers me because as the 'gateway' dance music it tends trick people into thinking it is actually original, since it's the first time they're hearing it.
also these other genres don't have the same kind of superstar deejays with egos like roman emperors and swooning crowds of impressionable neophytes
| quote: | Maybe you're listening to music on e speakers...
Those "Aahs" and "supersaws" sound like liquid gold to me, if they're done well.
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so does glitch techno |
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| Clovis |
| quote: | Originally posted by SPAWNmaster
well one thing to consider is that producers are commodities just like dj's. the label only wants to invest money in something thats marketable just like any other product. if the masses are buying, the label will keep providing from the same batch of cookies.
i guess this says more about the masses than the labels, because no one seems to have respect for their ears or legs anymore do they? only their fists... |
Well I dunno about you guys, but I try and buy the least amount of music as possible. :p |
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| nefardec |
i decided i am going to spend some time today browsing new trance releases to see what i find.
i normally only hear a small selection when people post samples here and when is see tracklists here.
generally i don't like the vibe of the new trance, it's like it takes itself too seriously or something
i'll report my findings |
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| SPAWNmaster |
| quote: | Originally posted by Clovis
Well I dunno about you guys, but I try and buy the least amount of music as possible. :p |
very true. also remember that some of the biggest labels are the ones that are pushing out so much garbage (ultra/anjunabeats/armada/etc). since record deals are influenced by record sales (aka what the dj'ing masses are looking for) and the vast majority of the bigger name dj's are pushing the cheese, the top-dog labels are staying negligent of the no-namers pushing off the right stuff.
it's a catch 22 as well, because we have people such as armin who owns a succesful big-name label, but he's pushing off the garbage that's fueling the demand for more garbage by his cheese-eating following.
i guess keeping people aware of all the bs will do some good... |
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| Clovis |
| quote: | Originally posted by nefardec
i decided i am going to spend some time today browsing new trance releases to see what i find.
i normally only hear a small selection when people post samples here and when is see tracklists here.
generally i don't like the vibe of the new trance, it's like it takes itself too seriously or something
i'll report my findings |
Whenever I browse new releases on BP, sometimes I click the Armada stuff or other trance, just to see. But I always end up feeling like I've heard the track before. It's not fresh to me, it doesn't move me, or inspire me. And thats the stuff that I consider listenable. The rest usually takes itself way too seriously or is gimmicky electro trance .
Sometimes I come accross the odd really nice prog-psy tune. |
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| Clovis |
| quote: | Originally posted by SPAWNmaster
very true. also remember that some of the biggest labels are the ones that are pushing out so much garbage (ultra/anjunabeats/armada/etc). since record deals are influenced by record sales (aka what the dj'ing masses are looking for) and the vast majority of the bigger name dj's are pushing the cheese, the top-dog labels are staying negligent of the no-namers pushing off the right stuff.
it's a catch 22 as well, because we have people such as armin who owns a succesful big-name label, but he's pushing off the garbage that's fueling the demand for more garbage by his cheese-eating following.
i guess keeping people aware of all the bs will do some good... |
Hey if people want to listen to crap, thats fine by me. They always have and always will. As soon as a generation of kids starts realizing there are other forms of EDM out there, and many more avenues to explore, theres a boatload of n00bs who just tuned into ASOT for the first time waiting to take their place. I know, I was one of them. :p |
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| Cobalt |
The formula is only a framework. Past hits did not materialize simply because they stuck to a formula. They had inspiration, catchiness, and interest. Something that made an emotional spark, either in the sounds used, their arrangement, or some other special combination of qualities.
What's derided is not merely that trance sticks to a single formula of arrangement, or that the presets all sound the same. That's a big factor in why it's so pathetically bad these days, but it's not the only reason, or even the primary one. There's no inspiration or artistic vision. There's no mood or depth of quality. There's no emotion. There's no feeling or vibe. Today's trance is purely derivative nonsense, but not because the bars match up in a certain way, or because certain samples are being used over others. |
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| Clovis |
| quote: | Originally posted by Cobalt
The formula is only a framework. Past hits did not materialize simply because they stuck to a formula. They had inspiration, catchiness, and interest. Something that made an emotional spark, either in the sounds used, their arrangement, or some other special combination of qualities.
What's derided is not merely that trance sticks to a single formula of arrangement, or that the presets all sound the same. That's a big factor in why it's so pathetically bad these days, but it's not the only reason, or even the primary one. There's no inspiration or artistic vision. There's no mood or depth of quality. There's no emotion. There's no feeling or vibe. Today's trance is, purely derivative nonsense, but not because the bars match up in a certain way, or because certain samples are being used over others. |
I agree. Theres alot of room for creativity within the framework, we're just not seeing much of it. |
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