Originally posted by MikeyN
its been said time and time again, the ECU is designed by Mclaren Electronic Systems and Microsoft, there is no advantage to any team. it is a STANDARD. MES produces each one equally for everyone. If ferrari swapped ECU's with BMW and ferrari still fails while the BMW does not, that eliminates the ECU as the problem.
Besides, Ferrari showed excellent reliability in winter testing, using the ECU of course. they had plenty of time to adopt it learn it and discover it. They're looking for someone to blame for their misfortune, we all do, thats only human.
If ferrari is going to blame MES for their ECU problem, then Mclaren, Renault, BMW Sauber, and all other Michelin teams from 2006 wouldve had a right (in 2007) to accuse Ferrari of having an unfair advantage due to their close relations with bridgestone. (although a STANDARD tyre was adopted).
You're just saying what is politically/socially correct.
Fact is, Ferrari DOES have an advantage when it comes to Bridgestone tires because they've used them longer than any other teams. Whether they actually *use* that advantage to full effect is their choice. Ferrari has more knowledge and experience with Bridgestone tires than any other team.
Yes, it's a standard, but that doesn't change the fact that McLaren DOES have an advantage since they co-designed the ECU. MES is located in the exact same building as the McLaren Technology Center where most of McLaren's F1 work occurs. Obviously McLaren is not going to blame *itself* with regards to the ECU. McLaren had the most trouble-free race in Melbourne, and considering THEY co-developed the ECU, it is a little bit suspicious. The ECU controls many of the car's systems, not just the engine.
Yes Ferrari was reliable in testing, and so was Toyota but testing and racing are two different things. You're being naive if you think that the teams can completely learn and test inside-out the new ECU in only a few months. It takes years for that to happen.
Just in case you're wondering, here is exactly what Toyota said regarding their gearbox problem:
quote:
Q: What was Timo Glock’s gearbox issue in Melbourne qualifying that cost him five places on the grid?
A: It was not related to the hardware. It was connected with the control system, a consequence of the standard ECU. It’s quite complex in terms of settings and we are still in the learning process. I think several teams have had a similar kind of issue to us with various systems and it is certainly the type of issue that we would not have had with our own system, because we knew it so well.
Those "several teams" that Toyota is talking about include Williams which had gearbox issues on Friday practice in Melbourne.
Toyota is also saying that their gearbox problem would have never happened with their old proprietary ECU.
I assume you saw the Melbourne race, where a large number of cars crashed out. Who knows, there could have been more cars with ECU-related issues. We shall see in Sepang.
Don't you find it odd though that Ferrari said neither engine actually failed? During the race, there was never any smoke or any signs that the engines had failed.
MikeyN
if the problem is down to ECU, then i think that MES should have worked more closely with all the teams and ensure a better exchange of data to aid the development and implementation of the standard ECU. its just too late for "should've" now.
but the question mark still hangs, why did this not happen in testing. thats why these teams run race simulations. only reason i could think would be extraneous variables present in the race that were not there in testing. Heat could be one of them. the ECU may have overheated in australia, whereas Jerez was much cooler, but Bahrain was hickup free? So i think that if there is in fact a problem with the ECU it may be down to extraneous variables.
fact is, there is so much that can go wrong on these cars. neither of us work for these teams (i think). so neither of us can point the finger and say its the ECU, but its easy to. i just don't think there is enough evidence right now to say it is.
also, the ECU is linked to many other electrical systems in the car. just because one subsystem failed doesnt mean you can point at the ecu right away.
still an interesting topic for discussion though :)
Dark_Archonis
quote:
Originally posted by MikeyN
if the problem is down to ECU, then i think that MES should have worked more closely with all the teams and ensure a better exchange of data to aid the development and implementation of the standard ECU. its just too late for "should've" now.
but the question mark still hangs, why did this not happen in testing. thats why these teams run race simulations. only reason i could think would be extraneous variables present in the race that were not there in testing. Heat could be one of them. the ECU may have overheated in australia, whereas Jerez was much cooler, but Bahrain was hickup free? So i think that if there is in fact a problem with the ECU it may be down to extraneous variables.
fact is, there is so much that can go wrong on these cars. neither of us work for these teams (i think). so neither of us can point the finger and say its the ECU, but its easy to. i just don't think there is enough evidence right now to say it is.
also, the ECU is linked to many other electrical systems in the car. just because one subsystem failed doesnt mean you can point at the ecu right away.
still an interesting topic for discussion though :)
You're right, neither of us work for a team, I'm simply stating what the teams have said though. Ferrari has not explicitly stated the ECU was a problem, but that is the word coming from Italy right now. Toyota though has specifically said the ECU was related to their gearbox problem.
Who knows exactly how it all happened though.
trancechaos
Revised Malaysian GP starting grid
Saturday, 22 March 2008 07:14
1. MASSA Ferrari
2. RAIKKONEN Ferrari
3. TRULLI Toyota
4. KUBICA BMW
5. HEIDFELD BMW
6. WEBBER Red Bull
7. ALONSO Renault
8. KOVALAINEN McLaren*
9. HAMILTON McLaren*
10. GLOCK Toyota
11. BUTTON Honda
12. COULTHARD Red Bull
13. PIQUET Renault
14. BARRICHELLO Honda
15. VETTEL Toro Rosso
16. ROSBERG Williams
17. FISICHELLA Force India
18. BOURDAIS Toro Rosso
19. SATO Super Aguri
20. SUTIL Force India
21. DAVIDSON Super Aguri
22. NAKAJIMA Williams**
* penalised 5 places for impeding Heidfeld
** penalised 10 places for Melbourne incident
trancechaos
Even though the race wasnt that exciting it was good to see Kimiand ferrari back on form.
I hope its going to be a good battle between BMW, Ferrari, and Mclaren this year. Its good to see kubica in second place, so I guess it might be possible to see BMW have thier first win this year.
trancechaos
quote:
Super Aguri pulls out of F1
Tuesday, 06 May 2008 08:42
Super Aguri has pulled out of Formula 1 with immediate effect, leaving Takuma Sato and Anthony Davidson without drives.
The team's future had been in doubt since a proposed buyout deal with the Magma Group and Dubai International Capital fell through following the Bahrain Grand Prix.
Aguri Suzuki's squad raced in Spain with assistance from Honda and hoped that a rescue package from German automotive firm Weigl AG would allow it to stay afloat – but in a statement released this morning, Suzuki confirmed that his team had reached the end of the road.
"In order to realise my dream to become an owner of a Formula 1 team, I applied for a grid position in the FIA Formula 1 world championship in November 2005," Suzuki said.
"Since then, I have participated in the championship for two years and four months as the Super Aguri F1 team, but regretfully I must inform you that the team will be ceasing its racing activities as of today."
The Ear
No surprise here. F1 is too expensive for private teams to compete in, and this is something I"ve been saying for a long time. With MAJOR corporate sponsors any team is effectively doomed to bringing up the rear, which of course creates a catch 22 situation b/c when you're last place, corporate sponsors aren't exactling calling you on the phone every 5 minutes to advertise on a last place car.
Orko
quote:
Originally posted by The Ear
No surprise here. F1 is too expensive for private teams to compete in, and this is something I"ve been saying for a long time. With MAJOR corporate sponsors any team is effectively doomed to bringing up the rear, which of course creates a catch 22 situation b/c when you're last place, corporate sponsors aren't exactling calling you on the phone every 5 minutes to advertise on a last place car.
They used to for Minardi 12 lab quali was still alive. Minardi always went out much earlier than anybody else in the hour long session, specifically to get more camera time.
But, F1 is no longer for small teams. It is too big, too expensive and too advanced.
El K Dee
ugh....in tire punctures
The Ear
Where's my money? lol
Cosmic Fur
quote:
Originally posted by The Ear
Where's my money? lol
