|
The global cooling debate has begun anew... (pg. 5)
|
View this Thread in Original format
| Shakka |
| quote: | Originally posted by josh4
I don't disagree with all your reservations on Gore. I just like that he upsets you. |
I'm glad to know there's something in the world that makes you happy.;) |
|
|
| Arbiter |
| quote: | Originally posted by Fir3start3r
Isn't this the very reason the Kyoto Protocol failed / is failing... |
Yes, it is. And the reality is that the more successful we are in helping developing economies elsewhere, the more emissions those countries will produce as well.
Unless, that is, we can develop a cheap, efficient alternative energy source that has infrastructural requirements less than or equal to fossil fuels. I rather wonder how much progress we might have made in that regard if all the research grant funds that have been allocated to studying climate change and its possible effects had been put towards something, like alternative energy, which might actually have some tangible benefit instead. |
|
|
| Fir3start3r |
| quote: | Originally posted by Krypton
Can we get that peer-reviewed article stating the current global warming is a natural occurance please? I couldn't find it my own universities library...;)
IN fact, this is the first result I find...;) |
A counter-conservative article?! Found at a university??
No way!! :toothless :stongue: |
|
|
| Fir3start3r |
| quote: | Originally posted by Krypton
Can we get that peer-reviewed article stating the current global warming is a natural occurance please? I couldn't find it my own universities library...;) |
Well, well, look what I just stumbled upon...
A brand new peer-reviewed paper on the historical temperatures in northern Scandinavia.
http://www.springerlink.com/content...b5184282eb&pi=0
Happy reading :) |
|
|
| Fir3start3r |
Since everyone loves graphs, lets start with this one showing the temperature plummeting over the last 12 months.
(This graph is one of four separate sources - sorry for the monster size...not me...).
| quote: |
New data from all four of the major global temperature tracking outlets show that world temperatures last year dropped between 0.65 and 0.75 degrees Celsius. That’s the largest one-year temperature change ever recorded — up or down — and is large enough to wipe out virtually an entire century of warming.
|
>>Source<<
But wait, isn't global warming constant and growing and we'll be all swimming with the fishes next year or something like that? ;) |
|
|
| jerZ07002 |
| notice that it still hasn't reached 0. |
|
|
| atbell |
| quote: | Originally posted by Fir3start3r
Isn't this the very reason the Kyoto Protocol failed / is failing... |
It did?
Damn, I didn't realize all life had been lost in a climate change disaster. |
|
|
| atbell |
Found but not read, no surprises there. |
|
|
| atbell |
| quote: | Originally posted by Fir3start3r
Since everyone loves graphs, lets start with this one showing the temperature plummeting over the last 12 months.
(This graph is one of four separate sources - sorry for the monster size...not me...).
But wait, isn't global warming constant and growing and we'll be all swimming with the fishes next year or something like that? ;) |
Must I repost the comment from earlier about how a 12 month trend is in significant compared to the trends of thousands of years? |
|
|
| Krypton |
This is the main point your paper theorizes. . .
"The late-twentieth century, however, is not exceptionally warm in the new record: On decadal-to-centennial timescales, periods around ad 750, 1000, 1400, and 1750 were equally warm, or warmer. The 200-year long warm period centered on ad 1000 was significantly warmer than the late-twentieth century (p < 0.05) and is supported by other local and regional paleoclimate data. The new tree-ring evidence from Torneträsk suggests that this “Medieval Warm Period” in northern Fennoscandia was much warmer than previously recognized."
My response. . .
1. The study is limited to only Scandinavian temperatue measurements.
2. Measuring tree rings is not the only method used to gauge historical temperature patterns.
3. Ice core samples, a much better gauge of past temperature, indicates that today is the warmest period in almost 1 million years as indicated by this series of charts. Source: Barry Saltzman, Dynamical Paleoclimatology: Generalized Theory of Global Climate Change, Academic Press, New York, 2002, fig. 3-4.
Timelines: 1,000,000 years; 150,000 years; 16,000 years, 150 years. . .
Your study does nothing but state that temperature measurement based on tree rings and maximum density is a bit unreliable. It does not prove your notion that humans are not to blame for today's global warming trends. Nor does it prove that today is not the warmest period in thousands of years.
Noone is denying there are natural factors in climate trends. The difference today from the past is that there is an unnatural release of gases stemming from industrial operation which adds to the natural release of these gases. And if nature shows us anything, it is that it only takes slight differences in environment to change the ENTIRE system. Our additional industrial gases being added to the natural trends of the atmosphere is certain to magnify any natural warming trend to unnatural levels, which is exactly what the scientific consensus has concluded, OUTSIDE OF POLITICS!!! |
|
|
| atbell |
Yup, you didn't read it. This is a site for buying the paper. It also points to the fact that the temperature readings are regional (European) and only capture "63-63% of the instrumental inter-annual variation".
Global warming, as the name implies, deals with the whole globe. |
|
|
| josh4 |
| quote: | Originally posted by atbell
Must I repost the comment from earlier about how a 12 month trend is in significant compared to the trends of thousands of years? |
and how about the many quotes I posted talking about 2007/2008 cooling trends but those years still making the top ten lists for warmest years on record. apparently thats not relevant enough to reference
| quote: | Originally posted by Fir3start3r
Since everyone loves graphs, lets start with this one showing the temperature plummeting over the last 12 months.
(This graph is one of four separate sources - sorry for the monster size...not me...).
| quote: |
New data from all four of the major global temperature tracking outlets show that world temperatures last year dropped between 0.65 and 0.75 degrees Celsius. That’s the largest one-year temperature change ever recorded — up or down — and is large enough to wipe out virtually an entire century of warming. |
>>Source<<
But wait, isn't global warming constant and growing and we'll be all swimming with the fishes next year or something like that? ;) |
You guys really need to check your sources better. I'm not sure where you got that quote, I couldn't find it on the linked page. I did however find this:
| quote: | UPDATE AND CAVEAT:
The website DailyTech has an article citing this blog entry as a reference, and their story got picked up by the Drudge report, resulting in a wide distribution. In the DailyTech article there is a paragraph:
“Anthony Watts compiled the results of all the sources. The total amount of cooling ranges from 0.65C up to 0.75C — a value large enough to erase nearly all the global warming recorded over the past 100 years. All in one year time. For all sources, it’s the single fastest temperature change ever recorded, either up or down.”
I wish to state for the record, that this statement is not mine: “–a value large enough to erase nearly all the global warming recorded over the past 100 years”
There has been no “erasure”. This is an anomaly with a large magnitude, and it coincides with other anecdotal weather evidence. It is curious, it is unusual, it is large, it is unexpected, but it does not “erase” anything. I suggested a correction to DailyTech and they have graciously complied. |
Judging from the comments, DailyTech simply changed "erase nearly all the global warming recorded over the past 100 years" to "wipe out virtually an entire century of warming". Which is basically the same thing and the author of the blog DailyTech references is explaining thats not even close to what he meant.
This is all very suspect. You're desperately searching for material to backup your beliefs and can't find any. What you do find is coming from questionable propaganda sources that play up certain parts of unanalyzed data in a way that helps their message. |
|
|
|
|
