|
How do you know you exist? (pg. 7)
|
View this Thread in Original format
| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by RJT
Do you know what a feedback loop is? |
like with microphones and speakers?
| quote: | Originally posted by RJT
What I'm asking is whether or not we could look at our own existence, or existence in general as a feedback loop that we keep adding new content to - and I attempted to use language/communication as a somewhat tactile example of this.
Wilfrid Sellars argues that our sense perception of the world around us is deeply tied to language and that though experience comes prior to language, we don't really think until we have attained the means to communicate in a coherent fashion. This, however, begs the question of where did communication come from - in any form - which may seem a foolish question, but the idea I'm getting at is contained within Chomsky's argument for innate linguistic frameworks. This is namely that language/communication is this constantly evolving and changing entity that seems to reference some sort of "starting point" into which all known language refers back to.
What I'm wondering is:
A. What you think of this concept of language - specifically because it's directly tied to how we deal with sense experience.
B. Whether or not you think the concept of a self-referential loop could be used as a satisfactory metaphysical framework.
Sorry if this is all a bit jumbled - very stream of consciousness kind of stuff right now as I'm right in the middle of re-reading Doug Hofstadter's book for the third time. |
Sorry, I must leave that serial wankathon to mr lira!! im far too dumb. |
|
|
| RJT |
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
like with microphones and speakers? |
Yup - exactly. The idea is effectively that you start with a loop, it refers back to itself (thus amplifying, or "adding content" if you will), and this continues in perpetuity until either the process plateau's or the loop you're discussing is infinite (certainly a potential outcome when we talk about time as cyclical).
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
Sorry, I must leave that serial wankathon to mr lira!! im far too dumb. |
Lol, it's probably not that - it's that I'm not really doing a great job of getting across a concept that's far more complex than I'm giving it credit for.
I'm going to make a wretched teacher. :p |
|
|
| Krypton |
RJT, what is a self-replicating loop?
As for language as the basis of our sense perception; all I know is that Avrim Noam Chomsky is the man!! I'm writing a 3000 word paper due in 2 weeks on him coincidentally. Short I know...:p
Couple questions...
1. Can something come from nothing?
2. Can an event be uncaused? |
|
|
| RJT |
| quote: | Originally posted by Krypton
RJT, what is a self-replicating loop? |
One thing I need to clarify is that it's self-referencing, not self-replicating. What I mean by this is that the loop refers back to itself, but only as it adds more content to itself.
Think of it this way: An audio feedback loop occurs when sound sent through a microphone and through speakers re-enters the microphone, thus adding more "content" (amplifying the volume), and in theory this process would perpetuate itself endlessly (though in practice, at least with audio, this is a fallacy).
So effectively the loop refers back to itself while adding new content to create what might be considered a "new" loop, but is in reality just the product of the natural evolution of the feedback loop.
| quote: | Originally posted by Krypton
As for language as the basis of our sense perception; all I know is that Avrim Noam Chomsky is the man!! I'm writing a 3000 word paper due in 2 weeks on him coincidentally. Short I know...:p |
Chomsky is definitely a fellow I admire entirely, and I think his theory of linguistics was so far ahead of its time it hurts. I really think it will be the basis of our understanding of any idea of universal language we may come up with.
| quote: | Originally posted by Krypton
Couple questions...
1. Can something come from nothing?
2. Can an event be uncaused? |
Lol - isn't that really just one question? The one question philosophers have failed to answer for 3000+ years.
My response would be something along the lines of mutated reductionist metaphysics in which all that exists is (broadly) matter, and that existence is little more than the sum of matter expanding and contracting.
This obviously skirts the issue as to whether or not something can come from nothing - and where this "matter" came from - but I might dismiss questions of that nature as outside the scope of human comprehension, and maybe take a line that WVO Quine might have and say that we should try to deal with the issues relevant to our actual experience rather than what we speculate to be the case.
This, again, is obviously an unsatisfactory answer by most standards - so bonus points if you can find any academic source that's wrapped this issue into a neat little box and I'll eat my hat. :p |
|
|
| pkcRAISTLIN |
| philosophy is like masturbation without the money shot. |
|
|
| RJT |
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
philosophy is like masturbation without the money shot. |
Lol, very true - but I still like it. The pursuit of more questions rather than answers is for one reason or another something I really, really like. |
|
|
| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by RJT
Lol, very true - but I still like it. The pursuit of more questions rather than answers is for one reason or another something I really, really like. |
I enjoyed much of it too, but moreso the political stuff than the weirdo esoteric concepts of truth or beauty etc.
Philosophy is also kinda like the Sims, MMOs, sim city etc. might be fun while youre doing it but where's the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow? |
|
|
| Silky Johnson |
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
Philosophy is also kinda like the Sims, MMOs, sim city etc. might be fun while youre doing it but where's the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow? |
Blahblah it's not the destination but the journey blahblah. |
|
|
| Nrg2Nfinit |
| quote: | Originally posted by jennypie
Blahblah it's not the destination but the journey blahblah. |
your right.. did they teach you how to breast feed in nursing school? |
|
|
| Moongoose |
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
Philosophy is also kinda like the Sims, MMOs, sim city etc. might be fun while youre doing it but where's the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow? |
At the goldfarmers. Im sure if you ask nicely they will be willing to part with it. For the right price...
Or in the hands of one french girl who made over 1.000.000€ selling property in second life according to a discovery channel series i watched yesterday. |
|
|
| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by jennypie
Blahblah it's not the destination but the journey blahblah. |
Perhaps, but what kind of journey is it when it leaves you high and dry in the middle of bum-fvck idaho with no idea how you got there or how to get home? |
|
|
|
|
