Another response by Obama. Not only does he concede he misspoke (kinda refreshing to hear from a ing politician instead of them trying to cover up their tracks like this Administration has done for so many years), but he body slams Hillary pretty hard on the mat as well.
"Shame on her."
Right, Senator, except you know she doesn't have any. If she had some she would have conceded defeat long ago.
Q5echo
quote:
Originally posted by MisterOpus1
You're asking someone who views Obama in a very similar manner as you may view McCain. You may very well view McCain as someone who's policies run parallel to Bush's, and you may disagree strongly with those views as I do as well.
But that's not to say that Q believes such policies or philosophies are wrong, in fact it seems pretty obvious after all these years that he agrees with the majority of them set forth by this Administration.
To Q, a better future does not lie in someone who wants to stear us away from the present course, especially in an "elitist" librul like Obama :rolleyes: . A better future for those who still approve of Bush are with someone who holds similar views to the same policies.
I think Q steps out of his own shoes plenty of times, but in the end his views still run similar to the present course of events set out by Bush. We can certainly disagree with that and point out why we disagree, but I don't think you'll be getting very far by asking him to step out of himself when he's pretty set in who he is and what he believes in, just like you or I.
Of course I leave room for Q to correct me. I didn't want to necessarily put words in his mouth. The more I've argued with him, the more he reminds me of my hard-nosed Conservative brother, except my brother has a major religious influence on himself that I don't see in Q. You don't change the minds of folks like Q by asking him to step out of himself when he's quite comfortable who he is. We just continue to argue and point out the flaws in the arguments of each other, knowing we're not likely going to make too many dents in our political beliefs.
give me a Blue-dog Democrat or any Republican whos last name doesn't rhyme with Mayfee and i'm good.
just don't give me a Ted Kennedy disguised as a populist.
Groundhog Boy
quote:
Originally posted by Q5echo
..........alright i'll take your word for it.
Originally posted by DJ Shibby
Honestly, a good system overall shouldn't have to rely on the election of an executive;
i'm not going to get dragged into a psuedo-psychological butt- with you. just suffice it to say thats one thing you and i can agree on tonight.
a good system shouldn't have to rely on the election of an executive. not completely, change can start from the bottom or the top, but thats where we are right now. the top.
thats great but i didn't see anything in there about irrational xenophobia and gun ownership. or furthermore, any mindbogglingly hypocritical free trade rhetoric.
Lebezniatnikov
quote:
Originally posted by Q5echo
of course the context is different, now. it's easy to drop the condecention and say the same thing in a new context. he's The Great Orator.
you just don't say like "they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations." thats something a liberal politician looking for money in SanFrancisco would say.
we'll let the "great unwashed" voters decide:rolleyes:
Read the transcript from the damn speech for crying out loud! That sentence came in the third paragraph of a four paragraph response. In context, it is FAR from an insult to any American, be he rural, poor, liberal, or elitist. It is an explanation of a sociological fact. Poor economic conditions lead to bitterness, which leads people to find solace in the things in their life that are most constant. The implication that FoxNews seems intent on reading into that statement is that he is saying that all rural people are gun-nuts and religious fundamentalists... he did not say that - only that he can understand why someone would throw themselves into religion or gun ownership with the fervor in which they do.
Please Q, you have a nasty habit of not reading the context of one-liners given by a Democratic candidate. It's the same myopia that is responsible for the media condensing everything down to a ten second soundbite. It doesn't accurately describe the situation you are discussing, and often leads to highly inaccurate conclusions.
edit: And for the third time in this thread, let me just remind everyone of something: OBAMA HAS REPEATED THIS EXACT SAME SENTIMENT ALL THROUGHOUT RURAL INDIANA IN THE LAST THREE DAYS. For those of you that are geographically-challenged, Indiana is considered by most to be part of the rural Midwest.
shaolin_Z
quote:
Originally posted by Groundhog Boy
You do realize that I'm from rural PA and he's right. People there do cling to guns and religion when times are tougher. Reason being that guns are for self defense and we all see that crime rates go up as jobs are lost and people start running out of options. My dad said that the gun shops have never been busier, which is awfully concerning considering the economic situation is pretty bad and guns aren't cheap. A similar thing happened back in 1999 when people were worried about Y2K and doomsday stories abounded. Religion, as we see all through history, is more revered when times are tough because it gives people hope that better things are ahead. Bitterness about the government and falling on tough times don't provide the foundation for gun rights and religion, but they will strengthen them.
Also, what's so wrong with being bitter? It's not like it's a blight on those who are bitter, and just because they are doesn't mean they're not proud, hopeful, or many of the other things that the Clinton and McCain campaigns have been trying to say you can't be when bitter.
This is yet another bull attack against Obama started by the Clinton supporters who are supporting a candidate with no chance of being nominated by a "by the people" process, unless the only people you are concerned with are the 700+ superdelegates.
You guys are probably right, he won't be President thanks greatly in part to Hillary's bitter, distorted attacks on a member of her own party. We'll be stuck with McCain who will do no better than Bush and keep us plagued by war and economic downturn. Congrats, Hillary. Maybe after 4 more years of the same, the people will blindly ignore how awful of a candidate you are and elect you to clean up the messes that you helped create. Cross your fingers....
I'm not fond of any polician, including Obamam and Ron Paul, but McCain in office would be quite disasterous, and I tend to think he would make Bush look like a saint. So I hope you're wrong.
Arbiter
It was pretty foolish; I would have expected him to exercise better judgment than to phrase it that way.
As for his "thesis" here, it is sorely lacking in nuance, but there is a certainly degree of truth to it. Strategically, though, that will do him little good - he has put the quotation out there and it's going to hurt him, at least somewhat. The Democrats continue to outdo themselves with their capacity for self-destruction...
Fir3start3r
Appears Obama has a rebuttal...
atbell
quote:
Originally posted by Q5echo
thats all well and good but he would have never, EVER, said that in rural Pennsylvania or "a lot of small towns in the Midwest" if his life depended on it, much less an POTUS election.
there's the real hypocrisy. who cares really what his adversaries say after the fact.
Of course he wouldn't have said this in rural Pennsylvania. Why would he try and explain what it's like to live in rural Pennsylvania to people who are actually there.
It seems pretty damn clear to me that the intention of his speach was to try to get the people of a highly urbanized liberal centre to understand what people are like in other parts of the country.
Of course this is going to come off as condesending if you happen to be a part of the group being described. Imagine how condesending he would sound trying to explain why a transvestie loung singer in San Fran. is not happy with the laws on gay marriage even though he is straight.
How confusing is that going to be to tell good old boys?
A big part issue with the whole notion of elitists and being condesending is that there is a huge and growing gap between the rural and urban comunities in North America. Fewer and fewer rural comunities are well educated or tollerant. Technology is lagging and conections with the rest of the world are mostly through the local urban centre.
The town I grew up in was generally about 5 years behind what was going on in Toronto, the local urban centre. After spending three months there this year I think the gap has grown to about 10 years now.
This gap is evident in everything from music, to cars, to media, to saleries.
Explaining why this is happening is probably one of the biggest questions confronting economics / politics. No one really knows for sure and it has only just begun to be studied.
Natural resources seem to play a part but tolerance, technology and talented people apear to be what is really helping regions flurish.
atbell
quote:
Originally posted by Q5echo
thats great but i didn't see anything in there about irrational xenophobia and gun ownership. or furthermore, any mindbogglingly hypocritical free trade rhetoric.
Free trade's going to be the most mind boggling issue in the election. Every politician is going to protect American jobs while ensure an open and competative market...
It's all smoke and mirors on trade. Each candidate is going to try to do what ever they think will get them in and not what they think is "correct". This is because even the people who study the feild are still divided on the issue.
Because of this using the trade stance of any politician is clearly out of bounds. No one running for office is going to have a better or worse stance on foreign trade.
Zild
quote:
Originally posted by DJ Shibby
He's speaking his mind and he's probably right.
PS: At this point, I think every American is rightfully bitter.
You're right I am bitter, but I don't cling to things because of it. I get pissed get money and kick the out of those who can't keep up.
