Originally posted by nefardec
I'd like to make another point in defense of plastic, disposable music.
When's the last time you've seen a full orchestra play on a beach under the stars, or in a crumbling warehouse with two faint red lights? When's the last time you were sitting in the symphony hall and the girl next to you tore off her top because of the way the principal violinist played a pizzicato note?
for me the the disposable nature of the music, the 12", the infinite mutability of the set, the unique, chance spectacle of the party is the best part of it all. I love that you can take a single case anywhere you can plug in and create a little island of heaven for a couple hundred people for a few hours. I love that you can download music and play 100 new tracks the next night for the same crowd. I love the disorientation of it all, the constant novelty and disequilibrium that promotes new thoughts and alternative viewpoints.
When you go to a concert hall and listen to some guy play bach hundreds of years later, it just strikes me as a bit disingenuous... besides that you must sit in a little chair all gussied up and use only your ears to experience the music. There is no shared human connection between the observers, and it is a one-dimensional performance.
That said, the most beautiful thing to me about classical music is watching a master play it, watching the muscles twitch in his face
This with the girl that tores her top off is especially true in Armin concerts :wtf:
Now i hope that does not make Armin van Buuren the best of the plastic, but, anyway...
Ofcourse these things you describe are only your personal experiences nothing more nothing else. If you feels bored in a concert hall its just you. You could also feel ecstasy in the literal sense!
Vortex_SA
quote:
Originally posted by PETRAN
Yes i agree with you, i was just speaking about the majority of modern pop music (that EDM belongs to) which mostly derives from classical western music.
and thats a shame, i would love to see more asian and arabic scales blending in...
i dont think edm is a part of pop i think it relates more with underground music such as techno...
PETRAN
quote:
Originally posted by nefardec
but i don't think that... I just find it a more direct, accessible, and involving way to achieve a state of ecstasy.
What? Rhythm doesn't have to be fast... I am just not going to bother responding anymore to this one. What do you mean by flickering scene? do you mean "film"?
Ecstacy is induced when a certain state of thoughts and emotions are present and repetion, being aural or visual help in achieveing that. Forget "flickering", a red picture coming on and off at a specific rhythm could help induce ecstasy.
But anyway, its just YOU that you find it more direct, accessible etc. A state of ecstasy can be induced by anything, quoting wikipedia:
Ecstasy can be deliberately induced using religious or creative activities, meditation, music, dancing, breathing exercises, physical exercise, sex or consumption of psychotropic drugs, e.g. MDMA. The particular technique that an individual uses to induce ecstasy is usually also associated with that individual's particular religious and cultural traditions. Sometimes an ecstatic experience takes place due to occasional contact with something or somebody perceived as extremely beautiful or holy, or without any known reason. "In some cases, a person might obtain an ecstatic experience "by mistake". Maybe the person unintentionally triggers one of the, probably many, physiological mechanisms through which such an experience can be reached. In such cases, it is not rare to find that the person later, by reading, looks for an interpretation and maybe finds it within a tradition."[1]
you don't just need cheap minimal techno to induce it lol...
nefardec
quote:
Originally posted by PETRAN
A state of ecstasy can be induced by anything, quoting wikipedia:
well then there we have it! exactly why I think cheap, plastic music has the same spiritual potential as your beloved glass music!
and wikipedia said so!
PETRAN
quote:
Originally posted by nefardec
well then there we have it! exactly why I think cheap, plastic music has the same spiritual potential as your beloved glass music!
and wikipedia said so!
Same with drugs, sex, dancing, breating exercises....
i thing that we should drop listening to music altogether since all these activities have the same "spiritual potential"!
I never argued that ecstasy can be caused by antyhing (even listening to classical in a concert hall). Its you that you were arguing that what causes ecstasy is better and hence, i posted this wikipedia article to inform you taht ecstasy can be caused by anything and hence it is not an index of quality!
What i was arguing was, that there is a reason that glass music is "glass" and not "plastic"...and there are both subjective and objective, absolute and relative reasons for that.
Vortex_SA
quote:
Originally posted by PETRAN
Same with drugs, sex, dancing, breating exercises....
i thing that we should drop listening to music altogether since all these activities have the same "spiritual potential"!
I never argued that ecstasy can be caused by antyhing (even listening to classical in a concert hall). Its you that you were arguing that what causes ecstasy is better and hence, i posted this wikipedia article to inform you taht ecstasy can be caused by anything and hence it is not an index of quality!
What i was arguing was, that there is a reason that glass music is "glass" and not "plastic"...and there are both subjective and objective, absolute and relative reasons for that.
so... i dont get it... why are here if you loath EDM that much?
sljiva
quote:
Originally posted by PETRAN
...and i don't remember mentioning you?
You started this whole classical vs. modern music (and you're doing it too often) subject with this:
quote:
Originally posted by PETRAN
Ok, so, i consider good music to be impressionistic classical music and that all EDM is just y "unts unts" club music with no substance or whatsoever, and that you have also a y taste for listening to this "unts unts y music" and not to the holy impressionistic classical music of Debussy and Ravel, hows that?
which clearly implies that I mocked the guy just because he listens to ty late 90's tech trance, and I listen to some ultra sophisticated and complex music. That's completely incorrect, since I never mentioned what I listen to, instead I just indicated that today's tech trance is a cheesy bastardazation of the real tech trance sound (it doesn't really deserve to be called like that anymore, just like today's trance doesn't deserve to be called trance - that has nothing to do with my opinions towards the quality of it).
Vortex_SA
quote:
Originally posted by sljiva
You started this whole classical vs. modern music (and you're doing it too often) subject with this:
which clearly implies that I mocked the guy just because he listens to ty late 90's tech trance, and I listen to some ultra sophisticated and complex music. That's completely incorrect, since I never mentioned what I listen to, instead I just indicated that today's tech trance is a cheesy bastardazation of the real tech trance sound (it doesn't really deserve to be called like that anymore, just like today's trance doesn't deserve to be called trance - that has nothing to do with my opinions towards the quality of it).
so what are you listening to? re-runs of those early trance tunes??
and even if you think someone elses music taste is ty, you dont have to mention it, just like im doing bout ur kind of replying...
sljiva
quote:
Originally posted by Vortex_SA
so what are you listening to? re-runs of those early trance tunes??
and even if you think someone elses music taste is ty, you dont have to mention it, just like im doing bout ur kind of replying...
I didn't say your music taste is ty, I just said those producers and their tracks are ty and not tech trance. I don't know what you listen to besides that, so I cannnot comment on your taste. And what's wrong with my replying? I know it's little all over the place but I'm watching this stupid game so I cannot fully concentrate on discussion
Vortex_SA
quote:
Originally posted by sljiva
I didn't say your music taste is ty, I just said those producers and their tracks are ty and not tech trance. I don't know what you listen to besides that, so I cannnot comment on your taste. And what's wrong with my replying? I know it's little all over the place but I'm watching this ty game so I cannot fully concentrate on discussion
well then, maybe i didnt understand you proparly, it seemed to me as you mocked my musical taste...
anyway, writing ty on something can still be offending... you couldve just as easily that you think todays modern "tech trance" is not what it used to be and that you belive early 90s "tech trance" were produced in more quality in your opinion...
now, isnt that more pleasent to read rather then "ty tech trance" "today's tech trance is a cheesy bastardazation of the real tech trance sound"?
and you havent answered my question, i really want to know, what do you listen to?
PETRAN
quote:
Originally posted by sljiva
You started this whole classical vs. modern music (and you're doing it too often) subject with this:
which clearly implies that I mocked the guy just because he listens to ty late 90's tech trance, and I listen to some ultra sophisticated and complex music. That's completely incorrect, since I never mentioned what I listen to, instead I just indicated that today's tech trance is a cheesy bastardazation of the real tech trance sound (it doesn't really deserve to be called like that anymore, just like today's trance doesn't deserve to be called trance - that has nothing to do with my opinions towards the quality of it).
I did it because of your ty attitude towards the guy. I do it too often? No, i don't think so.
The reason that i brought this debate, was due to the fact that it strikes me how people want to find differences in everyhting, pushing their holy egos with their holy preferences on others. And i think that THIS you do it too often my friend. I know that you have a decent taste and stuff, but it strikes me how this knowledge doesn't make you to adopt the right neutral attitude.
First of all, i hate how nowadays EDM has become a fractionated scene with various sub-genres that hate and loath on each other. Its stupid because in the end of day, the structure and the music-making process is identical, be it house, techno or trance. Yes there are differences, and maybe there is more musical effort for some genres in comparison to others, but in the end of day its all...Electronic Dance Music...nothing more nothing less...
I brought the "Classical" debate in order to show that in comparison to such genres, all EDM IS similar. Because EDM is radically different from classical music. I didn't do it for the purposes of causing a flame war, but for the pusposes of opening people's minds a bit. People are so busy being picky within their own little worlds that forget the big picture.
What strikes me is the egoism that some of you have. Now, i'm not talking about you personally, but the "fanboism" of some people here is funny as hell. Well, ok, people are young and young people want to be part of something, be part of a movement or scene and stuff. But these are seriously teenage or post-teenage tendencies that some people must overcome (again, i'm not talking about you mate). Its not good because these tendencies often force one to be close-minded, leading him/her to fanaticism and dogmatism (im not talking only about music). So, yes i listen to EDM but i don't have a problem to admit that EDM is what it is. It is not some godly music or something beyond this world. Its just electronic dance music which can have a bunch of nice ideas, can be trippy and creative and emotional and ecstatic and dynamic and direct and everything...but it still is electronic dance music. It is not a virtuose jazz piece, or a sublime symphony, or a masterfully crafted opera, or progressive rock (yes damn bloody techno will never reach King Crimson and Van Der Graaf Generator in complexity and musicianship) deal with it!
You just have to accept that. Whats the big deal anyway? Music preferences never made one inferior. You can well be a quantum physicist and still like ABBA (and i know such a case...). You just accept that you love ABBA or techno or trance, because you love them and that you really don't care what others say. But then again, don't force ABBA or any techno or any trance as the best thing since sliced breast or the best invention since the wheel, because it isn't. And yes i love some EDM!
Clovis
quote:
Originally posted by PETRAN
Music preferences never made one inferior. You can well be a quantum physicist and still like ABBA (and i know such a case...). You just accept that you love ABBA or techno or trance, because you love them and that you really don't care what others say. But then again, don't force ABBA or any techno or any trance as the best thing since sliced breast or the best invention since the wheel, because it isn't. And yes i love some EDM!
But thats because good taste is independent of the knowledge required to be a quantum physicist. To me that analogy makes no sense.
That said, you can also have great taste in strange music but also have an appreciation for pop and cheese, much like you can be an wine expert but enjoy a cold coca cola now and then.
