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Wright speaks (pg. 2)
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| tathi |
| quote: | Originally posted by jerZ07002
i can't help but think this is good for obama. Leb pointed out in another thread that Wright said he will go after obama if he becomes president. in my opinion that is very good for obama because it totally disassociates obama with wright. furthermore, it shows people that obama is clearly not on the same wave length with wright. |
agree |
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| Q5echo |
| quote: | Originally posted by jerZ07002
i can't help but think this is good for obama. Leb pointed out in another thread that Wright said he will go after obama if he becomes president. in my opinion that is very good for obama because it totally disassociates obama with wright. furthermore, it shows people that obama is clearly not on the same wave length with wright. |
it's too late and the only person at fault for that is Barack Obama.
Obama should have went with his gut and completely left Wright out of his campaign back in January 2007, not March 2008.
none of what Wright says is good for Obama as long as Wright refuses to take Obama's name out of his mouth.
and what does that mean anyway's, "going after" Obama? it's ridiculous and nobody will take it seriously.
people will look at that and consider it nothing but coordinated damage control because like it or not, Wright is the only person speaking for Obama right now. again, guess who's fault that is?
besides, Obama has to be President first in order for that to be realized and he's still a **** hair away from losing the primary. |
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| Lebezniatnikov |
| quote: | Originally posted by Q5echo
it's too late and the only person at fault for that is Barack Obama.
Obama should have went with his gut and completely left Wright out of his campaign back in January 2007, not March 2008.
none of what Wright says is good for Obama as long as Wright refuses to take Obama's name out of his mouth.
and what does that mean anyway's, "going after" Obama? it's ridiculous and nobody will take it seriously.
people will look at that and consider it nothing but coordinated damage control because like it or not, Wright is the only person speaking for Obama right now. again, guess who's fault that is?
besides, Obama has to be President first in order for that to be realized and he's still a **** hair away from losing the primary. |
Two questions:
1. How is Wright the only person speaking up for the Obama campaign right now? How is he even part of the campaign? Wright himself clearly stated that he's nothing but Obama's pastor.
2. Why did John McCain accept the endorsement of Rev. John Hagee?
And one clarification:
1. "Going after" Obama, in the context of the speech (if you had watched or read it) clearly meant taking Obama's Administration to task for policies that go against the poor community, just as he has been taking the current Administration to task. It meant just because he knows Obama, he isn't going to give him a free pass if he makes it to the White House. Furthermore, he told Obama that personally. You really think this is a guy the campaign has talking for them? |
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| DJ Eco |
| quote: | Originally posted by Q5echo
people will look at that and consider it nothing but coordinated damage control because like it or not, Wright is the only person speaking for Obama right now. again, guess who's fault that is? |
Hmm... I'm gunna disagree with you on that one, although I did agree with some of what you said on the first page. There's still enough surrogates speaking for Obama. I don't think anyone sees Wright as an Obama-appointed surrogate, but just that annoying fly in the room that's taking people's attention away from Obama.
Do I think it's hurting him, yeah of course, but anyone can see he's the furthest thing from "someone talking FOR Obama's campaign". People are associating the two pretty closely, which is maybe what you meant with your comments, which is pretty dangerous in itself. |
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| DJ Eco |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov
The timing of this is strange though - the anti-Obama, anti-Wright GOP ad goes on the air in North Carolina tomorrow. McCain pulled a complete 180 this weekend, saying first that character attacks on Obama over Wright were out of line, and now saying that they're "fair game" in a general election. Will be interesting to see if that backfires now that people are realizing Obama and Wright were never as close as the Clinton campaign made them out to be. |
Once again, you're making this out to something that the Clinton campaign MADE HAPPEN or at least TOOK ADVANTAGE OF, as if that's something evil. Any campaign would have used this as an issue, even the Obama camp if the tables were turned, there's nothing wrong with that.
As for how close he and Wright are, c'mon. He's said it in the past that Wright filled in the void in his life left by his father who left him. Wright and his church gave him a sense of identity, and I say good for him. But for you to say that "people are realizing Obama and Wright were never as close", that statement is preposterous. As a matter of fact, "The Audacity Of Hope" comes from one of Wright's sermons. After all this debacle, one of Obama's statements was that he was "that uncle of yours who says things you sometimes disagree with." That's fine and all, and I'm the first person to say let's lay off this issue, Obama hasn't really done anything proactively wrong here, but to say they "were never as close as the Clinton campaign made them out to be", c'mon, don't be foolish. |
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| jerZ07002 |
maybe this entire thing is hurting him more than i thought:
| quote: | Associated Press Article
AP poll: Clinton leads McCain, doing better than Obama
BY LIZ SIDOTI
Hillary Clinton now leads John McCain by 9 points in a head-to-head presidential matchup, according to an Associated Press-Ipsos poll that bolsters her argument that she is more electable than Democratic rival Barack Obama.
Obama and Republican McCain are running about even.
The survey released Monday gives the New York senator and former first lady a fresh talking point as she works to raise much-needed campaign cash and persuade pivotal undecided superdelegates to side with her in the drawn-out Democratic primary fight.
Helped by independents, young people and seniors, Clinton gained ground this month in a hypothetical match with Sen. McCain, the GOP nominee-in-waiting. She now leads McCain, 50 percent to 41 percent, while Obama remains virtually tied with McCain, 46 percent to 44 percent.
Both Democrats were roughly even with McCain in the previous poll about three weeks ago.
Since then, Clinton won the Pennsylvania primary, raising questions anew about whether Obama can attract broad swaths of voters needed to triumph in such big states come the fall when the Democratic nominee will go up against McCain. At the same time, Obama was thrown on the defensive by his comment that residents of small-town America were bitter. The Illinois senator also continued to deal with the controversial remarks of his longtime Chicago pastor, the Rev. Jeremiah Wright.
''I don't think there's any question that over the last three weeks her stature has improved,'' said Harrison Hickman, a Democratic pollster unaligned in the primary. He attributed Clinton's gains to people moving from the ''infatuation stage'' of choosing the candidate they like the most to a ''decision-making stage'' where they determine who would make the best president.
Added Steve Lombardo, a GOP pollster: ``This just reinforces the sentiment that a lot of Republican strategists are having right now -- that Clinton might actually be the more formidable fall candidate for a lot of reasons, not the least of which is that Obama can't seem to get his footing back.''
The AP-Ipsos poll found Clinton and Obama about even in the race for the Democratic nomination. Underscoring deep divisions within the Democratic Party -- and a potentially negative longer-term impact -- 30 percent of Clinton supporters and 21 percent of Obama supporters said they would vote for McCain in November if their preferred candidate didn't win the nomination.
Obama leads Clinton in pledged delegates, but she has the advantage among superdelegates with about a third yet to make up their minds.
Democratic Party Chairman Howard Dean said Monday that one of the two must drop out of the race after the primary season wraps up in June so Democrats can unite before the late-summer convention and the fall campaign.
He also urged undecided superdelegates -- members of the Democratic National Committee as well as Democratic governors and members of Congress -- to side with either Clinton or Obama before the August convention so the party can come together to take on McCain. The Arizona senator clinched the GOP nomination last month and has been campaigning freely since.
Also on Monday, the head of the Republicans' House campaign committee said the party would rather face Obama in November because the GOP believes Clinton would be more of a threat to McCain among moderate voters.
Said Tom Cole, a congressman from Oklahoma: Obama ``is by any definition very liberal, to the left of Hillary Clinton, in a center-right country. That is very, very helpful to us.''
Nearly half the people in the AP-Ipsos poll said the protracted Democratic primary will hurt their party's chances in November; more Obama supporters than Clinton backers said they had that fear.
Overall, people said they trusted Clinton and Obama about the same to handle Iraq and the economy; McCain got similar ratings on Iraq but trailed both Democrats on the economy. And while roughly the same percentage of people said they trusted both Democrats to understand their problems, fewer trusted McCain.
When pitted against McCain, Clinton now wins among independents, 50 percent to 34 percent, when just a few weeks ago she ran about even with him with this crucial group of voters. Clinton also now does better among independents than Obama does in a matchup with McCain.
Clinton has a newfound edge among seniors, too, 51 percent to 39 percent; McCain had previously had the advantage. And, Clinton has improved her margin over McCain among people under age 30; two-thirds of them now side with her. McCain leads Obama among seniors, while Obama leads McCain among those under 30 but by a smaller margin than Clinton does.
She also now leads among Catholics, always an important swing voting group in a general election, and improved her standing in the South as well as in cities and among families making under $25,000 a year. But she lost ground among families making between $50,000 and $100,000; they narrowly support McCain.
The poll, taken April 23-27, questioned 1,001 adults nationally, with a margin of error of 3.1 percentage points. Included were interviews with 457 Democratic voters and people leaning Democratic, with a margin of sampling error of plus or minus 4.6 points, and 346 Republicans or GOP-leaning voters, with a margin of sampling error of plus or minus 5.3 points.
AP Director of Surveys Trevor Tompson and AP News Survey Specialist Dennis Junius contributed to this report.
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http://www.miamiherald.com/campaign08/story/512602.html
The orange is for you Leb, to underscore my theory that Obama will lose votes if he is nominated. |
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| Lebezniatnikov |
| quote: | Originally posted by josh4
Looking at Obama you can tell this has hit him hard, just as a person. Gone is the enthusiasm and hope that once characterized his persona.
This may well spell the end for his campaign. Before Wright reappeared it looked as if the issue had been dealt with and could be dealt with against the republicans. But now I don't see any easy way for Obama to get around it, especially against McCain.
Its very disappointing that Hillary may have been right, this has to do with Obama's electability. I still support him, believe in him, and want him to be president, but I'm not so sure he can win now. That seriously scares me because I do not want McCain to be president. |
You're so reactionary.
The general election is still seven months away -
A. How is this an electability issue, and
B. How does this issue have seven months of gas left in the tank? |
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| josh4 |
Looking at Obama you can tell this has hit him hard, just as a person. Gone is the enthusiasm and hope that once characterized his persona.
This may well spell the end for his campaign. Before Wright reappeared it looked as if the issue had been dealt with and could be dealt with against the republicans. But now I don't see any easy way for Obama to get around it, especially against McCain.
Its very disappointing that Hillary may have been right, this has to do with Obama's electability. I still support him, believe in him, and want him to be president, but I'm not so sure he can win now. That seriously scares me because I do not want McCain to be president.
There may already be signs of a turning tide. I say "may" because until the tide has turned its open to interpretation if these are actually signs of that.
But there was Easley and Dean has called for Clinton or Obama to drop out in June. I found it interesting that Dead specifically mentioned Obama like that, very well putting that possibility on the table.
If this punishment continues, it looks like the pressure will be great for Obama to drop out so the superdelegates don't have to choose. The result of the next primaries will determine how much of a possibility that is. |
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| josh4 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov
You're so reactionary.
The general election is still seven months away -
A. How is this an electability issue, and
B. How does this issue have seven months of gas left in the tank? |
Sorry I was making changes to my post when you replied.
A. Its an electability issue because Wright is going to reflect on Obama. It doesn't matter if they don't speak for one another or how many times Obama condemns his comments. Wright is turning it into a race issue and going against everything Obama is about. He is still talking, probably won't shut up, and that is going to cost Obama key white votes. I don't have any faith in the voters to see through it, they elected Bush.
B. Because Wright just filled up the tank. Its been going on for this long with a lot less material. Come the general election the republicans are going to have a field day with the whole charade. |
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| Lebezniatnikov |
| quote: | Originally posted by josh4
But there was Easley and Dean has called for Clinton or Obama to drop out in June. I found it interesting that Dead specifically mentioned Obama like that, very well putting that possibility on the table.
If this punishment continues, it looks like the pressure will be great for Obama to drop out so the superdelegates don't have to choose. The result of the next primaries will determine how much of a possibility that is. |
:conf:
This is crazy talk. First of all, Dean included both candidates to avoid the perception of taking sides. More than one superdelegate has been criticized for calling on Hillary to drop out - Dean is clear that he just wants to move on to the general, not pick on a particular candidate.
Second, how in the world does this constitute punishment that is going to force him out of the race? So his pastor said something offensive. That's enough to force the leading candidate to stop running? Because a guy Obama is friends with said something uncomfortable? If you read the speech there was a lot of truth to what Wright said, just delivered in a smarmy package. But it's true that no two people, whether strangers, enemies, friends, or family members, will ever agree on, so it stands to reason that some differences may be large.
There is a reason this is a story with resonance, and it's not because it's substantive and it's not because the media wants it to continue. The fact of the matter is that this story keeps rolling because people go "oh my goodness, Obama may not survive this character attack - racists have a real reason to hate him now. Maybe I should vote for someone else." Instead, people should be saying "so? How is this relevant to his ability to be Commander-in-Chief? It's not? Ok, next issue please." |
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| Lebezniatnikov |
| quote: | Originally posted by josh4
Sorry I was making changes to my post when you replied.
A. Its an electability issue because Wright is going to reflect on Obama. It doesn't matter if they don't speak for one another or how many times Obama condemns his comments. Wright is turning it into a race issue and going against everything Obama is about. He is still talking, probably won't shut up, and that is going to cost Obama key white votes. I don't have any faith in the voters to see through it, they elected Bush.
B. Because Wright just filled up the tank. Its been going on for this long with a lot less material. Come the general election the republicans are going to have a field day with the whole charade. |
A field day with what? The moment McCain mentions Wright, Obama can open up a can of Hagee comments. I guarantee that's a fight Obama will win. |
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