Wright is out making the media rounds. I think now that people are seeing him and he is explaining himself they will begin to warm up to him. He is used to speaking publicly and with character.
It appears it was Wrights own decision to come forward.
quote:
Our colleague Jeff Zeleny tells us that associates of Mr. Obama said privately that his campaign was furious at Mr. Wright’s decision to step forward so publicly, but that they were unable to do anything to control this. They added, however, that the pastor’s actions prove that he and Mr. Obama are not that close, otherwise why would Mr. Wright do this now? http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/...=rssnyt&emc=rss
So is this good or bad for Obama?
EDIT:
When I made the post all I had really paid attention to was his PBS interview. That was a lot more tame and had him address a lot of issues in a decent setting. Then he kept making appearances and yes it appears theres a lot more at work in his motivations than his apparently large ego he doesn't try to hide. Maybe the black church needs such a spokesman, but this particular one right now is not going to help Obama.
So the next question is where does it go from here?
Krypton
I completely agree with everything Reverend Wright has recently said, including the sermon where he said, "Not God bless America, God damn America!" If Jesus was right in saying, "Love thy neighbor", certainly destroying third world nations isn't that loving is it?
Moongoose
Cant know for sure but i believe he only said "Love thy neighbour". But he didnt say anything about your neighbours neighbour so that would make him fair game i guess.And since 3rd world countries are hardly americas neighbour they would count as fair game.
Krypton
quote:
Originally posted by Moongoose
Cant know for sure but i believe he only said "Love thy neighbour". But he didnt say anything about your neighbours neighbour so that would make him fair game i guess.And since 3rd world countries are hardly americas neighbour they would count as fair game.
"Love thy neighbor" means much more than literally loving only those in your immediate vicinity. We all live on the same planet, which in essence makes us all neighbors. Loving neighbors neighbors? What are talking about!? We are ALL neighbors on the same earth!
Furthermore, this "ethic of reciprocity" is the foundation of human rights. Treat others as you would like to be treated. Using the specific example of Iraq, did Iraq ever attack the USA? No. So why did we conquer and destroy their country? Reverend Wright was exactly right when he said, "Not god bless America, god damn America." The USA, supposedly a champion of human rights, can't even abide by the most basic of human rights which is to treat others (neighbors) as you would like to be treated, which Jesus taught on numerous occasions and even said, "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets." (Matt. 7:12) Not only is the ethic of reciprocity important to Jesus, but he said it sums up the Law of the Prophets! That's no mediocre teaching.
In pasting the bible verses below, it should be plainly brought into context where Reverend Wright was coming from when he said, "God damn America." The controversy over this, especially by the right wing war cheerleaders on the AM radio and Fox News, is nothing but more political bull.
Matthew 7:12
"So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets."
Luke 6:27-36
Love Your Enemies
27 "But I say to you who listen: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you,
28 Bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you.
29 If anyone hits you on the cheek, offer the other also. And if anyone takes away your coat, don't hold back your shirt either.
30 Give to everyone who asks from you, and from one who takes away your things, don't ask for them back.
31 Just as you want others to do for you, do the same for them.
32 If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners love those who love them.
33 If you do [what is] good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners do that.
34 And if you lend to those from whom you expect to receive, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners to be repaid in full.
35 But love your enemies, do [what is] good, and lend, expecting nothing in return. Then your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High. For He is gracious to the ungrateful and evil.
36 Be merciful, just as your Father also is merciful."
Luke 10:25-28
25 Just then a lawyer stood up to test Jesus. ‘Teacher,’ he said, ‘what must I do to inherit eternal life?’
26He said to him, ‘What is written in the law? What do you read there?’
27He answered, ‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind; and your neighbour as yourself.’
28And he said to him, ‘You have given the right answer; do this, and you will live.’
Jesus then proceeds to tell the parable of the Good Samaritan, making it clear that "your neighbour" means any other person.
Moongoose
If history has thought us anything is that if you read a text just right (I don't want to single out the bible here, as its not the only book guilty of this) it can say whatever you want it to say. And if i allow myself to generalise for a bit, it would seem that more people would view that part the way i explained it (not that i really think that way) than then way you explained it. Sad but that's the world today.
quote:
Furthermore, this "ethic of reciprocity" is the foundation of human rights. Treat others as you would like to be treated. Using the specific example of Iraq, did Iraq ever attack the USA? No. So why did we conquer and destroy their country?
Cant argue with you here. However as with everything, there is a limit. You can only be a dick to somebody for so long before you get a punch in the face. Not saying that it was Iraq's time for a punch in the face, but that's usually how it works.
quote:
Reverend Wright was exactly right when he said, "Not god bless America, god damn America." The USA, supposedly a champion of human rights, can't even abide by the most basic of human rights which is to treat others (neighbours) as you would like to be treated, which Jesus taught on numerous occasions and even said, "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets." (Matt. 7:12) Not only is the ethic of reciprocity important to Jesus, but he said it sums up the Law of the Prophets! That's no mediocre teaching.
Well there's no reason to bring god into it. I can understand that the man is quite upset about what's going on but his god damn america speech seems to be not only insulting to any believers but also highly hypocritical. He clearly doesn't show love for his enemy (which in this case would be the people in charge) but then he even extends his rage to the whole county, most of which (as opposed to popular opinion across the rest of the world) doesn't have anything to do with the politics of its leaders. As a religious person, or better yet as a religious leader he should have known better than to wish damnation on the whole nation. Shame on him any anyone that agreed with him as by wishing harm to others they are acting on direct opposition to the teachings of their religion.
Also most of Luke 6:27-36 should be thrown out. Not that i know any other verses of the bible but just by glancing quickly over these few sentences i would guess that it is the part of the bible that is by far the most ignored by people, religious or not, nobody follows it because nobody can. Its impossible.
Krypton
quote:
Originally posted by Moongoose
If history has thought us anything is that if you read a text just right (I don't want to single out the bible here, as its not the only book guilty of this) it can say whatever you want it to say. And if i allow myself to generalise for a bit, it would seem that more people would view that part the way i explained it (not that i really think that way) than then way you explained it. Sad but that's the world today.
Cant argue with you here. However as with everything, there is a limit. You can only be a dick to somebody for so long before you get a punch in the face. Not saying that it was Iraq's time for a punch in the face, but that's usually how it works.
Well there's no reason to bring god into it. I can understand that the man is quite upset about what's going on but his god damn america speech seems to be not only insulting to any believers but also highly hypocritical. He clearly doesn't show love for his enemy (which in this case would be the people in charge) but then he even extends his rage to the whole county, most of which (as opposed to popular opinion across the rest of the world) doesn't have anything to do with the politics of its leaders. As a religious person, or better yet as a religious leader he should have known better than to wish damnation on the whole nation. Shame on him any anyone that agreed with him as by wishing harm to others they are acting on direct opposition to the teachings of their religion.
Also most of Luke 6:27-36 should be thrown out. Not that i know any other verses of the bible but just by glancing quickly over these few sentences i would guess that it is the part of the bible that is by far the most ignored by people, religious or not, nobody follows it because nobody can. Its impossible.
Fair enough..:)
DJ Eco
To answer your question, YES, a big YES, it is hurting Obama. This madman is making his rounds and it sorta even makes me feel bad for Obama. This isn't even under his control and it isn't even within his campaign, it's just a madman with a huge ego sabotaging Obama's campaign.
I'm a Hillary supporter but disagreed when people were holding his association to Wright as some huge negative. Of course, it's gunna hurt him, but I personally didn't see the huge deal. But now, Wright is going overboard, maybe he's trying to land a book deal or be the next Joel Osteen or something.
As far as his "soundbytes" are concerned, it's a very clear message when you say that Hillary shouldn't be president because "she's never been called a n***er". There's no way to take that out of context, sorry.
DJ Eco
quote:
Originally posted by Krypton
I completely agree with everything Reverend Wright has recently said, including the sermon where he said, "Not God bless America, God damn America!" If Jesus was right in saying, "Love thy neighbor", certainly destroying third world nations isn't that loving is it?
Yes, well, 95% of churches are teaching us about Jesus and and "Love thy neighbor", which is great. No one is annoying Obama because he goes to church. Wright stepped it up a bit though. Let's get past that he said Hillary was never called the N-word, fine. No problem for me... But he insulted Irish people, Jews, Italians. I'm half-Italians and saw offense. Talk about Jesus, but don't talk about how ""Italians look down their garlic noses... Jesus got public lynching Italian style". If he had any depth of intelligence, he'd know Italy was not a country until the 1800s. It was called Rome back there. Sorry to digress, but I guess you get the point. That's not taken out of context, like he says, that's just that is unnecessary to be saying in church to ignorant people who are taking your every word as absolute truth. There's no way to stop racism by using ethnic slurs. He even made fun of people from Baaaah-ston (Boston) today:
quote:
"Nobody says to the Kennedy's, 'You speak bad English." Only to a black child was that said.
^^^Good job, asshat, but the correct English grammar would be "You speak English poorly."
jerZ07002
quote:
Originally posted by DJ Eco
Yes, well, 95% of churches are teaching us about Jesus and and "Love thy neighbor", which is great. No one is annoying Obama because he goes to church. Wright stepped it up a bit though. Let's get past that he said Hillary was never called the N-word, fine. No problem for me... But he insulted Irish people, Jews, Italians. I'm half-Italians and saw offense. Talk about Jesus, but don't talk about how ""Italians look down their garlic noses... Jesus got public lynching Italian style". If he had any depth of intelligence, he'd know Italy was not a country until the 1800s. It was called Rome back there. Sorry to digress, but I guess you get the point. That's not taken out of context, like he says, that's just that is unnecessary to be saying in church to ignorant people who are taking your every word as absolute truth. There's no way to stop racism by using ethnic slurs. He even made fun of people from Baaaah-ston (Boston) today:
^^^Good job, asshat, but the correct English grammar would be "You speak English poorly."
i can't help but think this is good for obama. Leb pointed out in another thread that Wright said he will go after obama if he becomes president. in my opinion that is very good for obama because it totally disassociates obama with wright. furthermore, it shows people that obama is clearly not on the same wave length with wright.
Lebezniatnikov
The timing of this is strange though - the anti-Obama, anti-Wright GOP ad goes on the air in North Carolina tomorrow. McCain pulled a complete 180 this weekend, saying first that character attacks on Obama over Wright were out of line, and now saying that they're "fair game" in a general election. Will be interesting to see if that backfires now that people are realizing Obama and Wright were never as close as the Clinton campaign made them out to be.
Q5echo
despite whatever Wright's ego says, this is about as divisive a surrogate can possibly be for his candidate. and yes, Wright is Obama's surrogate whether Obama wants him to be or not.
quote:
Four months ago, you took the political world by storm in Iowa. The media were agog. They called your words "gorgeous," your victory "a message to the world." You "made history" and Americans could "look at ourselves with pride" in "a moment to marvel."
Times change. The six weeks leading into Pennsylvania were difficult. You excelled at raising money and gaining endorsements, but got weaker as big problems emerged. Before you can fix them, you must understand them. In Pennsylvania, you won only 30 percent among Catholics and 29 percent among white working-class voters. Defections like this elect Republicans.
Even liberal commentators who adore you warn you can't win with a McGovern coalition of college students and white-wine sippers from the party's left wing. Saying small-town voters cling to guns, faith and xenophobia because of economic bitterness hurt you; it reinforced the growing sense you don't share Middle America's values. So did asking about the price of arugula in Iowa, dismissing the "true" patriotism of people who wear a flag lapel pin, being "friendly" (as your chief strategist, David Axelrod, put it) with a violent, unrepentant '60s radical and having a close relationship with an angry pastor who expressed anti-American sentiments.
You argue the son of a single working mom can't be an elitist. But it's not where you start in life; it's where you end up. After a prestigious prep school, Columbia and Harvard, you've ended up with the values of Cambridge, San Francisco and Hyde Park. So you're doing badly in Scranton, Youngstown and Erie, where ordinary Americans live.
Here are six suggestions for what to do.
1. Your stump speech is sounding old and out of touch. You made a mistake by not giving the bored press (and voters) something new last Tuesday when you lost Pennsylvania. Come up with something fresh that's focused on the general election. Recapture the optimistic tone of your start and discard the weary, prickly and distracted tone you've taken on.
2. When you get into trouble, pick one, simple explanation. And stay with it. Take the Rev. Jeremiah Wright Jr. You said you weren't sitting in church when he said those ugly things. Two days later, you excused him, saying his comments didn't give "a well-rounded portrait" of him. Two days after that, you condemned his statements as "not only wrong but divisive" but still couldn't "disavow him" any more than you could your grandmother. Ten days later, you implied if Wright hadn't retired, you might have left his church. It would have been better to say from the start that Wright's words were wrong and offensive and you should have spoken out earlier. The applause would have been deafening.
3. Your lack of achievements undercuts your core themes. It's powerful when you say America is not "Red States or Blue States but the United States." The problem is, you don't have a long Senate record of working across party lines. So build one. In the coming months, say that you'll appoint Republicans to your cabinet and get a couple to say they'd serve. Highlight initiatives Republicans can agree on. Most importantly, push for a bipartisan issue now before Congress.
4. You speak of the "fierce urgency of now" that calls leaders to confront important challenges. Sounds good, but people are asking, what urgent issues have drawn your enormous talents? It's counterintuitive, but spend less time campaigning and more time working the Senate. Pick a big issue and fight hard for it. Win or lose, you'll give your argument substance.
5. Stop the attacks. They undermine your claim to a post-partisan new politics. You soared when you seemed above politics, lost altitude when you did what you criticize. Attacks are momentarily satisfying but ultimately corrode your appeal.
6. To answer growing questions about your inexperience, people need to know, in concrete and credible ways, what they can expect from you as president. That's missing now. And don't think those position papers written by academics and posted on the Web do the job. They have a check-the-box quality to them. Americans want to see your passion and commitment to things they care about, in ways that give them confidence you're up to the job. They can smell when something is poll-tested and focus-grouped, not from the heart. Also, you can't bluff anymore like you did on "Meet the Press" in October 2006. (You weren't officially running for president yet, but it's still telling.) Tim Russert pointed to the passage in "The Audacity of Hope" that says "no small number of government programs don't work as advertised," and he asked for an example. You cited Medicaid and Medicare, saying: "I think that there's no doubt that we could squeeze more efficiencies out of those systems there. Simple example, we don't use electronic billing for Medicare and Medicaid providers. Now there's no other business on earth that still has people filling out paper forms to get reimbursed, especially for a system that large. We could drastically reduce the costs of those systems."
The only problem is, the Bush administration, building on the good work of the Clinton administration, already put in place in 2003 a regulation that requires electronic billing of Medicaid and Medicare. Since then, all but a handful have been electronic. You won't get a pass on bluffing anymore. You'll have to do both your homework and occasionally something that's difficult for you (and most other politicians): admit you don't know.
You have talent, intelligence and tapped into something powerful early in your campaign. But running for president is unlike anything you've ever done. You're making mistakes and making people worry that you're an elitist. So while you'll almost certainly win the nomination, Democrats are nervous about the fall. You've given them reasons to be.
...and in unrelated/related news, Gov. Easley has just endorsed Clinton.
Q5echo
quote:
Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov
The timing of this is strange though - the anti-Obama, anti-Wright GOP ad goes on the air in North Carolina tomorrow. McCain pulled a complete 180 this weekend, saying first that character attacks on Obama over Wright were out of line, and now saying that they're "fair game" in a general election. Will be interesting to see if that backfires now that people are realizing Obama and Wright were never as close as the Clinton campaign made them out to be.
Wright is not a product of Clinton.
Wright is not a product of McCain.
Obama says Wright is relevant, therefore he is relevant.
Obama can't disassociate from Wright no more than he can disassociate from his own grandmother.
therefore, the anti-Obama, anti-Wright GOP ad will go on and be legitimately effective.
"Hi, I'm Jeremiah Wright. I am a victim and I am relevant."
"brought to you by my ginormous ego"
