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Digital mixing vs. competent beat matching (pg. 5)
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| Zild |
Who cares about mixed in key? I was labeling my music with tempo and key long before CDJs were standard in DJ booths. But maybe that is because I was forced to learn an instrument and into band and choir at a young age. I always knew that songs have a key and that not all of them are compatible. But like a piece of music sometimes a little bit of dissonance does work well. I'd much rather understand the theory but that is me.
It was one of the first things I thought of when learning to DJ and what I worked on immediately after learning to beatmatch. For me it helps expand my choice of mixes by showing me that songs I wouldn't normally think to play together are actually a really good match. Either way I'm sure there are some great DJs who know nothing about music theory and can't play any instruments. |
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| Clovis |
| quote: | Originally posted by RJT
You just made it sound like keying your tracks was some crutch you had to cast off in order to be a good DJ - and of the three you listed, two are regularly terrible (or at least hit or miss). I don't think they're "as well off" for not having every option open to them. |
I listed 5 DJs who inspire me the most and who I like best, off nights and bad shows included.
As for having available tools, I think that when a tool starts to dictate how I think about what to play next, it becomes more than just "extra info", and I don't enjoy it. When I caught myself more often than not scanning my case for compatible keys rather than simply thinking about what I thought would sound good and feel good next, I stopped keying my tracks.
Its really a matter of personal preference, but for me having key information overall was a negative impact on my DJing, but I'm glad I tried it and understand more or less how it works and what it means. I don't look down upon anyone who uses it much like I don't care what medium is used to play music off of. |
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| Nemesis44 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Az
granted, but it does give you a list of tracks that may be suitable, instead of a DJ having to know their records and picking one himself. Hence the practically.
but the whole point of it is to be able to arrange tracks that can be harmonically mixed together using the the bull "easy mix system" it has :stongue:
congratulations on stating the ing obvious. I have no misconceptions about the software, it analyses records, and assigns them with the key and a number
which to me, although it may not be correct 100% of the time, is still suggesting records for a DJ is it not?
what in the does that have to do with anything?
I'm perfectly aware of how it works, I'm dismissing it as a tool that attempts to make things that are already quite easy, even easier, unnecessarily.
thats lovely, To summarise, I'm inclined to think you are a ing bellend |
Ok, look at it like this then, you obviously do know a thing or two about HM (my bad) but choose not to. Sure itīs freedom of choice.
I suppose the only thing that puzzles me is that if you are so good at what you do then why do you care what some rebel without a clue is doing with his laptop? Itīs not like he is headlining at Cream Amnesia this summer or in the forseeable future for that matter. I just didnīt understand your reasoning for making the statement in the first place, unless of course you have lost out on a work opportunity to a person like that, which would suggest that you are , and I doubt that is the case.
As for the ing bellend thing... sure whatever...
Nem |
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| elFreak |
dubfire uses mixed in key and he invented underground.
/thread. |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by Clovis
I listed 5 DJs who inspire me the most and who I like best, off nights and bad shows included. |
but im willing to bet my left nut, that even if theyre not writing the key on their records, that they're mixing mostly harmonically, through experience and talent. why on earth would professional musicians disregard the rules of music? that makes no sense.
i dont necessarily know which tracks will work together, so i key them first so if im ever going to do an out of key mix, then at least i know it.
and, as always, i will point out that if you want to mix harmonically, key tracks yourself! if you love the music youre playing, i see no reason why you wouldnt enjoy gaining a bit more knowledge about it.
| quote: | Originally posted by Clovis
As for having available tools, I think that when a tool starts to dictate how I think about what to play next, it becomes more than just "extra info", and I don't enjoy it. When I caught myself more often than not scanning my case for compatible keys rather than simply thinking about what I thought would sound good and feel good next, I stopped keying my tracks. |
yeah, i can understand that. if the tool is actually detrimental to your overall performance/enjoyment then yeah, it off. |
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| Az |
| quote: | Originally posted by Nemesis44
Ok, look at it like this then, you obviously do know a thing or two about HM (my bad) but choose not to. Sure itīs freedom of choice.
I suppose the only thing that puzzles me is that if you are so good at what you do then why do you care what some rebel without a clue is doing with his laptop? Itīs not like he is headlining at Cream Amnesia this summer or in the forseeable future for that matter. I just didnīt understand your reasoning for making the statement in the first place, unless of course you have lost out on a work opportunity to a person like that, which would suggest that you are , and I doubt that is the case.
As for the ing bellend thing... sure whatever...
Nem |
dubfire |
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| TRNG |
i used mixed in key for about a day
sure it may work for some people but i can't stand it... i hate the feeling of having a set few traks which i can or cannot mix with properly... I'd rather just go by which direction I feel the set should go in...
that said, key clashes sound god awful but proper EQ can almost completely eliminate them |
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| Beat Blog |
| quote: | Originally posted by RJT
Seriously, how does being ignorant of a piece of information = having that information?
:conf:
It really doesn't make any sense. |
You missed Clovis' point.
He's saying that these people have real talent because they don't need to label their tracks harmonically - their natural instinct and experience ensures that they can pull great transitions out of thin air that a lesser jock would only manage through painstaking hours of pre-gig preparation and experimentation. |
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| inconspicuous |
I'm with Rob on this one. Saying you don't want the extra information, to me, is like never looking at a scoreboard during a golf tournament, for fear of knowing more. I've never bothered to actually make notes on everything, but key is absolutely something I pay attention to, both on my own and when listening to others' work. I love hearing a track re-worked ever so slightly to fit an existing key (Cobblestone Jazz did this with 'India in Me' at DEMF and I was almost giddy), and hate hearing an otherwise-great mix spoiled by an off-key transition (Transitions 3, into 'Genesis'). Some people can pull that off without the aid of notes or a program (and for the record, I think something like Mixed in Key is kinda cheating, though I'm sure someone will make the Ableton/warping comparison), but the more it happens, the better.
Also, I think of it more as a benefit than interference. Two tracks that are both in key don't require much else in common to mesh well, while a LOT has to be right to put two off-key tracks back-to-back. |
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| nefardec |
it's true they have talent, but from what i have heard them play, it's nothing extraordinarily tonal anyways, and it's rather dissonant and percussive, so key clashes sound intended :p you might say it's more contemporary because of this, because its more about the layering of sounds and sound figures than of notes and chords. it certainly has more to do with dadaism and surrealism than bach or handel
they sense well the vibe of the track and of the room they are in, as well as the rhythm, but it's a different kind of musical sense.
When they bring in tracks it's more about bringing in elements and creating 'spectacles' than changing the chord or layering harmonies. i'm not making a judgment statement here, just saying it straight
to be a good dancefloor deejay you don't need to mix harmonically. it's just something that matters personally to me a lot of the time, and is related to the kind of music I choose.
like clovis said, the important thing is to do what feels right for you.
btw - the 'real talent' thing belongs in the 'how subjective is taste thread' :haha: |
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| Clovis |
| quote: | Originally posted by Beat Blog
You missed Clovis' point.
He's saying that these people have real talent because they don't need to label their tracks harmonically - their natural instinct and experience ensures that they can pull great transitions out of thin air that a lesser jock would only manage through painstaking hours of pre-gig preparation and experimentation. |
I don't think they necessarily have more talent at all. I just do not think that paying close attention to mixing in key is always beneficial to DJing, specifically if you play a lot of music that Adam described. |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by Clovis
I just do not think that paying close attention to mixing in key is always beneficial to DJing, specifically if you play a lot of music that Adam described. |
why do you feel that the basic rules of music don't apply? :conf: |
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