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Digital mixing vs. competent beat matching (pg. 9)
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| nefardec |
i'll say it again too.
it takes months and months to build a vinyl collection and get good enough to play records out.
i learned ableton in one night for a gig i had to play (the first time i ever used it for deejaying incidentally) for a department of music event at my university.
when you have to make careful purchases and go into record stores and talk to clerks, and talk to deejays, and decide if the whole record is worth it enough if you only like one track on it, etc, you find that your music selection skill gets a lot better and more particular very quickly (unless you just have a ton of disposable income).
When you have to leave records behind before a gig you go through a critical thinking process that helps to determine how you want your set to sound and what you want to do to the crowd.
in ableton, a deejay can just get a load of mp3s very quickly, on impulse purchases, or based on online banner ads, or at the worst, from soulseek or something, load up ableton without ever touching a vinyl record in his life, without wearing headphones, and lay down a set that might sound very accomplished.
This does not make him a skilled deejay, this makes him an instant 'professional'. People who can't deejay suddenly can make sets just like Sasha and Digweed! They can make all kinds of little mixtapes for their friends and copy the kiss fm playlists and beatport charts and sound just like pros.
But the same way that having a copy of adobe illustrator on your computer does not make you a graphic designer, unless you have a lot of creativity and passion, it's going to just reek of the software.
I certainly think that there are good ableton deejays out there. However, and this is just a guess - I'll bet that there is a lot more talent and passion in the group of vinyl deejays than ableton deejays, for the reasons above. I think in general people who play records just take it more seriously, and it shows. To me, playing records says something like. "I respect the tradition of deejaying. I respect electronic music. I am not just providing the soundtrack for another disposable night, I am not just trying to make an easy buck. I care about what I do, I sacrifice because I love it."
In my time deejaying, which isn't as long as some of you, I've never had people come up and ask me if they can mix with ableton during my set. On the other hand, every time I play records or even cds, several people always ask what I am doing and if they can touch the records, etc.
I guess in a more intimate setting it matters more than a superclub. |
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| Robert Eugene |
How did you get all your songs warped and ready for ableton in a day?? I'm been looking for ways to get around the warping, so if you've found a better way please let me know!!
If someone is using Ableton to just jump from track to track it seems like a waste..just use decks. However I like adding in a MIDI keyboard to add more of a "performance" aspect then just mixing and I'm always practicing at home to add new stuff to my sets when I'm playing live.
I'm in agreement with most everyone else; a good DJ is a good DJ is a good DJ, the medium is meaningless. |
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| Clovis |
| If you do an ableton search on here you'll see we've discussed quick warping methods a few times in the past. |
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| Ray_Chappell |
| quote: | Originally posted by nefardec
i learned ableton in one night...
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I'm assuming you mean the most basic of functions. Thoroughly learning Ableton isn't as easy as you make it out to be. On the other hand, there really isn't a lot to "learn" about decks. One buttom starts, one changes the rpm, one slider changes pitch. I learned that in one night... Ableton I did not. Not to demean decks, they are my preference, but they ain't that hard to learn.
| quote: | Originally posted by nefardec
When you have to leave records behind before a gig you go through a critical thinking process that helps to determine how you want your set to sound and what you want to do to the crowd.
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I don't entirely disagree, but extensive libraries allow you to adapt to a crowd... it lets you grab that record you may have left behind. More extensive libraries offer the flexibility that a well thought out plan can't... and that's to change if necessary. And that is a whole new skill in and of itself.
| quote: | Originally posted by nefardec
in ableton, a deejay can just get a load of mp3s very quickly, on impulse purchases, or based on online banner ads, or at the worst, from soulseek or something, load up ableton without ever touching a vinyl record in his life, without wearing headphones, and lay down a set that might sound very accomplished.
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I presume we are talking about only vinyl vs. Ableton at this point, because I've seen far too many CDJ users making the same poor choices... it isn't limited to Ableton.
| quote: | Originally posted by nefardec
This does not make him a skilled deejay, this makes him an instant 'professional'. People who can't deejay suddenly can make sets just like Sasha and Digweed! They can make all kinds of little mixtapes for their friends and copy the kiss fm playlists and beatport charts and sound just like pros.
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I think the premise that vinyl is a whole lot harder to become a good DJ is overstated here. Mixing two records and sending an RCA to your computer isn't really ALL that difficult either. And if it does allow you to focus more on track selection than beat matching, I don't see a problem with that.
| quote: | Originally posted by nefardec
I certainly think that there are good ableton deejays out there. However, and this is just a guess - I'll bet that there is a lot more talent and passion in the group of vinyl deejays than ableton deejays, for the reasons above.
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Eh... I've seen far too many ty "Dj in a box" rock stars to support that. Ableton users may respond that working digitally allows them the flexibility to adapt music theory, original media, etc. There are two sides to this coin.
| quote: | Originally posted by nefardec
To me, playing records says something like. "I respect the tradition of deejaying. I respect electronic music. I am not just providing the soundtrack for another disposable night, I am not just trying to make an easy buck. I care about what I do, I sacrifice because I love it."
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Come on... seriously? Using vinyl is more respectful to EDM adn DJ'ing. That's a stretch.
| quote: | Originally posted by nefardec
In my time deejaying, which isn't as long as some of you, I've never had people come up and ask me if they can mix with ableton during my set. On the other hand, every time I play records or even cds, several people always ask what I am doing and if they can touch the records, etc.
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Maybe vinyl is just easier? :) I'm kidding, but there is a learning curve to Ableton... that MAY account for it... may not.
It sounds like I'm arguing... I'm really not. I agree with your post awhile back that talent is talent, period. I personally enjoy vinyl for DJ'ing. I love Ableton for production. I tried Ableton and got annoyed with the lack of physical control of a record. Plus I'm a sucker vinyl quality of sound. I just think the shots taken at Ableton users can be far stretched and a bit demeaning of the amount of dedication it requires to warp a library, master effects chains, customize midi functions, etc. That's all.
As it has been said... a good DJ is a good DJ. |
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| Zoso |
| Those were some nice points/counter-points. Cheers, guys! |
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| nefardec |
| quote: | Originally posted by Robert Eugene
How did you get all your songs warped and ready for ableton in a day?? |
i warped them as i played them in some cases
it's really a joke how easy it is, especially if you have experience mixing before jumping onto ableton. |
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| Zild |
| quote: | Originally posted by nefardec
i warped them as i played them in some cases
it's really a joke how easy it is, especially if you have experience mixing before jumping onto ableton. |
Once you know how warping takes a few seconds. |
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| DaveG |
| quote: | Originally posted by Dj Dizzy
i agree with everyone else it's all about the music, but the laptop dj's are missing out on all the fun. it's like driving an automatic transmission car vs manual transmission, the manual transmission you feel more like a part of the car and have more control. to put it super cheesy it's a more intimate experience :crazy: |
This would describe me. I only have a computer at the moment, saving up for a couple decks. And since I'm bedroom only, it's like I'm just driving that automatic transmission around the front of the driveway only. |
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| nefardec |
perfectly alright
i used to use dj simulators before i got decks too |
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| ZeJayMan |
| quote: | Originally posted by Zild
Who cares about mixed in key? I was labeling my music with tempo and key long before CDJs were standard in DJ booths. |
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| DaveG |
| quote: | Originally posted by nefardec
perfectly alright
i used to use dj simulators before i got decks too |
It gets a bit boring for me, I don't feel very involved. Could mean I don't know how to use Ableton to it's full capabilities, and I don't. But I think it comes down to not feeling as involved in it as I'd like to.
But for the overall topic, as long as the music is good, and I'm having a good time then I don't care what's being used. |
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| Robert Eugene |
| I don't feel as though I'm missing out on ANYTHING!! Maybe I should have pointed out that I've been using the Xone 3D for about 6 months now...definitely not using a Mac and a mouse |
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