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Dow drops 778 points (pg. 4)
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| Konijn |
| quote: | Originally posted by jerZ07002
when i say "hard work" i don't mean just physically demanding, but also mentally demanding, time consuming, and stressful. |
by that metric cops would be millionaires.
| quote: | | that's not even close to true. Your primary goal may be to put food on the table, but that is just one of many (and actually the easiest to fulfill) of all my goals. |
if someone's prime motivation were to "put food on the table" they wouldn't choose to become an electrician, teacher or civil servant. they do so because they're motivated by a host of reasons beyond the financial -- reasons which i alluded to in my earlier post and reasons which escape you since your reductive logic equates abstractions like "drive" and life success solely with breaking into the upper financial stratum.
your contempt for the labor of the working class is manifest. |
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| DJ_Lord |
| quote: | Originally posted by Konijn
by that metric cops would be millionaires.
if someone's prime motivation were to "put food on the table" they wouldn't choose to become an electrician, teacher or civil servant. they do so because they're motivated by a host of reasons beyond the financial -- reasons which i alluded to in my earlier post and reasons which escape you since your reductive logic equates abstractions like "drive" and life success solely with breaking into the upper financial stratum.
your contempt for the labor of the working class is manifest. |
I don't mean to put cops down, by any means, but how is being a cop mentally demanding?
First of all, you can compare cops to let's say an IB analyst, it's just two different jobs that require a completely different set of skills. So you shouldn't take everything he says literally and apply it to any situation of your liking. That would be tweaking his words to your comfort.
By the way, with all everyone has said, I still think America is a country full of opportunities, more than any other country out there. In America, you can come from nothing and raise yourself to become a billionaire if you wish. Anything is possible. I strongly agree with jerz's post because since the American culture is set to be individualistic you are raised to think that you are in control of your future. I'm not saying that a cop, electrician, etc are lesser people but they MAYBE didn't try as hard as the IB analyst??? I think that might be a possibility. Besides, most of these employees who people seem to classify as middle class have great UNION benefits that protect them forever and ever. What union is protecting all those employees who got laid off at Lehman Brothers??? Who's protecting the guy who had to drop down 200k in loans at MIT to come to a jobless market in the middle of a crisis??? I think if the constructors have a UNION why not Wall Street analysts???
Please, America is FAIR, the country is great for anyone who wants to come here and has only ONE goal, to make money and lots of it! What can I say, I love money and I want to be a billionaire and I sure as hell will have a harder time accomplishing this in Sweden or any other of those 'happier citizenry' countries. |
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| jerZ07002 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Konijn
by that metric cops would be millionaires. |
being a cop isn't overly time consumming or mentally challenging. Cops work nice 40 hour weeks unless they want to work overtime. Also, neither reading a radar gun nor watching people enter trains is that mentally challenging. For that matter, most cops probably aren't even stressed out on a day-to-day basis. While there may be a certain amount of stress involved with pulling over cars that's nothing like meeting a midnight deadline to turn in a memo when you just got the project in the morning. Similarly, while diffusing a heated argument between neighbors could be stressful, those highly tense situations aren't daily occurrences for many cops and I don't think it's as stressful as being subject to tight deadlines on a frequent basis. The fact is that many cops don't 'fight crime' and chase criminals. Most stop vehicle, issue tickets, and respond to civilian calls (most of which involve nothing). I also disagree that a cop's job has some inherent stress because he risks his life everyday simply because he puts on a uniform. If that was true then many more cops would die every year. The fact that very few cops die while on duty contradicts the claim that being a cop is that dangerous and could involve any amount of stress directly related to that unjustifiably perceived danger. The sad fact is that many cops are no more than uniformed tax assessors assessing a masked tax (in the name of penalty) on violators of laws that are intended to increase revenue (as one of their purposes). I don't intend to say there are no cops who actually conduct the stressful activities of investigating crimes and busting drug rings, however, those cops are much fewer in number than the average ticket issuing cop.
| quote: | Originally posted by Konijn
if someone's prime motivation were to "put food on the table" they wouldn't choose to become an electrician, teacher or civil servant. they do so because they're motivated by a host of reasons beyond the financial -- reasons which i alluded to in my earlier post and reasons which escape you since your reductive logic equates abstractions like "drive" and life success solely with breaking into the upper financial stratum. |
Did you even read my posts? I clearly agree with that statement - re-read the text you quoted. You may also be interested in the part where I said the important question is: drive for what? I made a pretty clear distinction when i said:
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The question is whether they have a drive to leave the middle class for a higher economic status. |
| quote: | Originally posted by Konijn
your contempt for the labor of the working class is manifest. |
my mother, sister, and grandmother are school teachers; my brother is a cop; my girlfriend is a waitress; and my father worked for NJ transit his entire life. My contempt is for people who claim to knowing how I think or feel. You should try reading text in its proper context; perhaps not selectively reading would also help (if that is what you are doing). |
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| Groundhog Boy |
| quote: | Originally posted by danlaxx1
Steven, I know what you mean. My mom's business is still hurting and I'm sure today is only gonna make it worse. Hopefully it can't get much worse than it already is.
The middle class blue-collar families have been hurting for long enough. Not to be a total dick, but it's time the white-collar millionaires start losing some jobs to see what it's like. I'm 100% sure someone is gonna call me a ing idiot. But it is what it is. |
It passed the Senate today, but if you think that this asset purchase by the government is bailing out Wall Street, you're clueless (i.e. a ing idiot). Please read the bill (I haven't read the expanded from today, but the House bill was enough to pass and today's just included more unnecessary junk).
| quote: | Originally posted by sammy6979
Congress voting no on this bill is the best thing that could've happened to us. It's passing would only end up giving the globalists exactly what they want, total control. Their plan to bankrupt the economy and seize absolute power has failed, at least for the time being. |
LOL. It didn't take long for Congress to start grasping how wrong the House's decision was. Who cares if no one is lending money, right?
BTW, most interesting point - everyone is complaining about the high leveraging of the banks. Our FDIC has $45B on-hand to deal with bank failures. There are $4.5 trillion in insured deposits. And now we just had the Senate vote to expand FDIC, so that insured number will be higher if the House passes it.
Which is why WaMu was handed over to JP Morgan for nothing, just so FDIC didn't have to worry about the $300+ billion in deposits that they couldn't cover. |
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| The Vza |
| quote: | Originally posted by Steve-Neil
Its all good, we still got the houses but I might start having to get Soprano on a few people soon. |
im looking for a job. i'd LOVE to make your collections.
seriously though. pm me |
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| DJ Eco |
| quote: | Originally posted by Blake
How about we take twin brothers and spit them up at birth. We'll have one brother raised by a family with no education past high school which heavily abuses alcohol and narcotics and falls below the poverty line, then take the other twin and have him raised in a straight edged family of physicians and engineers. When the twin raised below the poverty line becomes a city worker, and the twin raised by professionals becomes a doctor we'll tell the doctor he simply had more "drive".:rolleyes: |
I agree somewhat with you and I agree somewhat with Jerz... Unfortunately, your example, although true, is part of what Jerz is talking about. For every kid born into a ty part of town whose family shapes him to stay a townie and not go to school, there's the kid from the ty part of town with a ty family who aims higher and doesn't get high every weekend with his townie friends who know no better. I'd like to say I'm modest, but in light of this discussion, I can say I'm the latter, whereas a bunch of my friends have low-end jobs, kids at 20 years old, and spend more money on drugs than they would have had to spend on college.
Like you said though, it's not their fault sometimes. Sometimes you're shaped by the people around you, and if it's a deadbeat family, you might become a deadbeat child product of that family. It's a very interesting sociological discussion which can't be proven right or wrong, but I tend to agree more and more that in the recent decades, oppurtunity is just as present as it was in the first half of the 20th century. Someone can come from the ty part of Jersey City and work his ass off to be an award-winning doctor, if he/she wants to.
However, I do disagree with Jerz on his examples of "accepting" being in the middle class. Choosing to become a teacher shows one's intent on shaping the future children of our country, which is more important of a "drive" than to be the next millionaire. That's just my modest opinion, being a product of a teacher mom. While, yes, her choice to be a teacher landed us in the middle class bracket, it most certainly should not be viewed as "settling for" or "accepting" middle class. To be a teacher is a more noble choice than to go work on Wall Street. It's about time our country starts seeing it this way, and maybe they'll get paid more and it won't be viewed as "settling for" middle class.
I do agree with your view on cops though. My friends who are working on being cops were college dropouts who didn't want to put in as much work as I am currently putting in. |
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| AY STAR |
i dont really like talking about politics or relgion or nutin ill keep it short as short as i can
i see alot of good points in this thread and this how i feel
alot of the problem with this country is that people spend more then they make
someone who makes say 50 thousand a year will spend like they make over 100
alot of it has to do with society, we live in a material world and people want to make the best out of life and say "fuk the goverment"
and i kind of see where they are goin with that, cause the goverment does the same thing, they spend more then they make
for me personally iam not in debt i have excellent credit
all i want in life is to live comfortably a nice lil house,a wife and kid and provide for them without living "paycheck to paycheck"
i know and anyone who knows me personally knows iam not goin to be a brain surgion in life lol so i will not put myself in the catagory i stated above about spending more then i earn and screwing the economy,credit card companys,banks etc
and as for the "middle class", a few years ago say a couple make makeing over 100 grand a year combined you would say they are living comfortable, now that expenses are on the rise, you cannot get the most out of your buck as you did in the past, but they are still considered "middle class"
everything is on the rise except for peoples salieries
and as for city jobs/civil service jobs
iam on the list for a few of them myself
if your unsure or even if you are sure what you want to do in life it dont hurt to take an exam..cause you never know what the future will hold, you could be laid off or something and get called from one of them and pick yourself right back up
theres alot of great benifits,job security,pension,paid vactions/holidays etc etc |
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| kingchinc |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ_Lord
Time to buy babyyyyyyyyyyyy |
what are your suggestions? |
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| ProggieGuy |
| quote: | Originally posted by Groundhog Boy
It passed the Senate today, but if you think that this asset purchase by the government is bailing out Wall Street, you're clueless (i.e. a ing idiot). Please read the bill (I haven't read the expanded from today, but the House bill was enough to pass and today's just included more unnecessary junk).
LOL. It didn't take long for Congress to start grasping how wrong the House's decision was. Who cares if no one is lending money, right?
BTW, most interesting point - everyone is complaining about the high leveraging of the banks. Our FDIC has $45B on-hand to deal with bank failures. There are $4.5 trillion in insured deposits. And now we just had the Senate vote to expand FDIC, so that insured number will be higher if the House passes it.
Which is why WaMu was handed over to JP Morgan for nothing, just so FDIC didn't have to worry about the $300+ billion in deposits that they couldn't cover. |
Nice to see someone has a grasp on what is really going on here.
To your point about raising the FDIC limits. What is that for? Anyone who has that kind of capital wouldn't have it sitting in pure cash. They would have it invested in something...if nothing else it would be some kind of goverment bonds. Also, can you just have multiple account to spread out your money or was the 100k limit a per person, not per account limit? |
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| DJ_Lord |
| quote: | Originally posted by kingchinc
what are your suggestions? |
I'm currently holding for short periods. Past weeks I was in SKF and GLD.
For the long term I'm looking into RIO, BAC and JPM. And for the next two quarters, GME.
I'm also looking to buy housing around the country. I know some banks in Cincinnati are selling townhouses in bundles of 10, in really nice areas and such, for around 150k.
Where are you standing? |
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| jerZ07002 |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ Eco
Choosing to become a teacher shows one's intent on shaping the future children of our country, which is more important of a "drive" than to be the next millionaire. That's just my modest opinion, being a product of a teacher mom. While, yes, her choice to be a teacher landed us in the middle class bracket, it most certainly should not be viewed as "settling for" or "accepting" middle class. To be a teacher is a more noble choice than to go work on Wall Street. It's about time our country starts seeing it this way, and maybe they'll get paid more and it won't be viewed as "settling for" middle class.
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i don't disagree that to become a teacher is a more nobel choice and it shows the different priorities of that person. However, that doesn't diminish the fact that the teachers drive to become a millionaire is less than an I-Bankers drive to become a millionaire. You guys are focusing on the wrong words. Sure, the teacher may have the same drive as an I-Banker when all the different life goals are aggregated, however, the question (as I said before) is the drive to do what? When a teacher decides that shaping the youth is more important that absolutely shows that the teacher is content on being in the middle class. If that wasn't the case then the teacher wouldn't have chosen an occupation that imposes such a severe handicap on the ability to earn substantial income. You guys are also assuming that being content with middle class is a bad thing. I have never said that. You guys are the one's who are assuming that settling is a bad thing. |
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| jerZ07002 |
| quote: | Originally posted by ProggieGuy
Nice to see someone has a grasp on what is really going on here.
To your point about raising the FDIC limits. What is that for? Anyone who has that kind of capital wouldn't have it sitting in pure cash. They would have it invested in something...if nothing else it would be some kind of goverment bonds. Also, can you just have multiple account to spread out your money or was the 100k limit a per person, not per account limit? |
you can't meet payroll with bonds. small businesses must have significant cash in excess of 100K in bank accounts in order to meet their payroll obligations. |
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