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Free-will and the average person. (pg. 3)
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| get nyce |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lira
I believe I am indeed the author. You? |
agreed, i share the same view |
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| Lira |
| quote: | Originally posted by get nyce
agreed, i share the same view |
But, would you say Billy and Billy' can choose to do different things? |
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| denys envy |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lira
Why not? Just because something has been always the same way until now, can't it ever change? |
well if were a betting man, i'd say the chance of change is less. |
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| Meat187 |
The question is stupid. You postulate two universes with an identical history, so if you use a simple cause-effect model the only logical conclusion is that both ARE identical, and a difference will never occur.
If you do not go with that simple explanations, and want to use some quatum-mechanical-probability-that-the-cat-is-dead-stuff, then the idea of a clone universe is completely absurd. And what's even more absurd is trying to make this about free will. If a difference between the universes can occur, it can happen anywhere and anytime, completely independet of Billy, Barbina, Deadmau5 or free will.
So in essence: A model based on a silly premise, that tries to connect things that have noting to do with each other, and brings free will in there for added fun. |
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| Boomer187 |
| quote: | Originally posted by get nyce
do you believe you are the author of your book or if your book is already written for you |
I believe i am the principles investigator and first author with a few billion co-authors. |
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| Psy-T |
haven't read the whole thread.
free will is illusory, and that's good enough for me. |
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| sean5 |
num numbers stuck tuck tuck in my head
4,8,10,15,10
"Dude, don't look at me like that. I'm not crazy." |
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| Lira |
| quote: | | quote: | Originally posted by denys envy
well if were a betting man, i'd say the chance of change is less. |
| quote: | Originally posted by Meat187
You postulate two universes with an identical history, so if you use a simple cause-effect model the only logical conclusion is that both ARE identical, and a difference will never occur.
If you do not go with that simple explanations, and want to use some quatum-mechanical-probability-that-the-cat-is-dead-stuff, then the idea of a clone universe is completely absurd. And what's even more absurd is trying to make this about free will. If a difference between the universes can occur, it can happen anywhere and anytime, completely independet of Billy, Barbina, Deadmau5 or free will. |
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Exactly! That's the whole point behind this question. Denys already answered the question, so the rest is for you, Meat187, and all those that failed to understand what this is all about.
I never said there wasn't any other parallel universe, by the way, as there could well be over nine thousand of them! That's not relevant to the debate. Our universe and the universe Billy' exists in could just be the last two similar universes, and all the others are already out of sync. Hell, this alternate universe could have just sprung out of ours one second ago, and this could be the first possible difference. Billy's phone call is the dividing moment that separates both worlds. Why not?
What matters is that both of them have lived the same experiences, have the same interests, and haven't done anything different so far, and you've got practically the same person in the very same situation dealing with the very same issue.
Now, based on that, can they ever disagree, in spite of that? Why (not)?
This is how it relates to free-will: If our choices are based solely on what happens to us, and we live in a deterministic universe, they are fated to do the same thing until their deaths. If, however, there is a thing free-will, it's reasonable to think one of them, sooner or later, is going to choose another path.
Maybe I should have spent some more time on the original post... oh well, so much for a simple debate :( |
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| tubularbills |
i wouldn't have gotten barbina's number. parallel universe or not. :o
lol, oh wait, i do have it:stongue:
as far as do myself and my parallel university billy' have to make the same decision?
i dunno. to be honest.
i think it would be fun after i die to watch a movie of my life where there was a parallel me and it did all the other choices (i.e. when i was faced w/ conflict, i did choice A but wondered what would have been if i did B).
since i cannot fathom it here in the real world, i can do nothing but just imagine it. |
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| boris_the_bear |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lira
I really think that, in spite of all the background, individuals are re-evaluating themselves at every single minute and can at any minute do something else for the sake of it, which would naturally lead to a different turn out of events in this case. |
false claim. think again:) |
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| Lira |
| quote: | Originally posted by boris_the_bear
false claim. think again:) |
Unless you're meditating or unconscious, you're always thinking, in a constant flux of problem-solving and alternate-reality construction. Of course, you don't always analyse your core beliefs, but you may reconsider and/or foresee how you're going to do the small stuff (e.g. whether or not it is a good idea to go fishing on the weekend, for example, and how it's going to be).
| quote: | Originally posted by Psy-T
free will is illusory, and that's good enough for me. |
How is it illusory? (do you really think I'd let you get away with that? :p)
| quote: | Originally posted by Adam420
if all along they have been making the exact same decisions, why would that change all of a suddenly? |
Because they're free to do so. Or are they? ;) |
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| Adam420 |
| But making a different decision would end their parallel existence. Think of one's life as an equation, one that keeps adding up, multiplying, subtracting and dividing. Suppose their lives were the same equation and at this very moment they are at the same step in that equation. If one makes a different decision then the other, then the remainder of each equation would be different, possibly different by a lot. Obviously that means that the rest of their lives will be different, and possibly very different. Going by the picture you paint, of course it is possible for one to make a different decision than the other, but then that picture would start looking a lot different;) |
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