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Free-will and the average person. (pg. 5)
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| Meat187 |
| quote: | Originally posted by dj_alfi
Let's say they decide to call; In the exact moment Billy and Billy' has decided, their timelines will skew into another alternate timeline where they decide not to call.
So, in both universes both Billy and Billy' will call Barbina and don't call Barbina. |
So... is the cat in your avatar alive or dead?
Edit: What strikes me as really weird about this pseudo-metaphysical / philosophical crap talk (read: thought experiment) how it tries to force a connection between two things and relate this connection to free will by building a most ridiculous construct. In order to arrive at the described point both histories of the universes have to run exactly identically for billions of years. That's billions of years of non-free will. :crazy: |
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| Lira |
Interesting replies... gonna comment on them tomorrow :)
| quote: | Originally posted by Meat187
What strikes me as really weird about this pseudo-metaphysical / philosophical crap talk (read: thought experiment) how it tries to force a connection between two things and relate this connection to free will by building a most ridiculous construct. In order to arrive at the described point both histories of the universes have to run exactly identically for billions of years. That's billions of years of non-free will. :crazy: |
| quote: | Originally posted by PETRAN
Nice thought experiment, but i see dumb people (that can't understand it and fixate to the parallel universe too much lol). |
The funniest thing is that not only they feel the urge to say how idiot it is, they also come up with remarks that have no relevance whatsoever.
Sometimes I think these people would point out the fact that it is highly improbable that there is a Twin Earth and that Descartes' Daemon is just the fruit of a paranoid mind that sniffed too much coke, among other things. They probably also say "Yes, I have" and walk away when someone asks them if they have the time :p |
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| barbina |
what the kkkkkkkkkkk?
:conf: why me? |
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| Lira |
| quote: | Originally posted by barbina
what the kkkkkkkkkkk?
:conf: why me? |
Because I've always wanted to say "And then, there's Barbina" :p |
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| barbina |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lira
Because I've always wanted to say "And then, there's Barbina" :p |
Acceptable answer. Carry on ;) |
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| PETRAN |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lira
Interesting replies... gonna comment on them tomorrow :)
The funniest thing is that not only they feel the urge to say how idiot it is, they also come up with remarks that have no relevance whatsoever.
Sometimes I think these people would point out the fact that it is highly improbable that there is a Twin Earth and that Descartes' Daemon is just the fruit of a paranoid mind that sniffed too much coke, among other things. They probably also say "Yes, I have" and walk away when someone asks them if they have the time :p |
Thought experiments have played an important part in shaping both philosophical and scientific thought. Einstein used to make "thought" experiments, e.g. simulating in his mind the relations of speed, mass, gravity etc. since it was obviously impossible to experimentaly test relativity at his time (they still test general relativity). Probably some people haven't heard of it and/or probably don't understand it and since their stupidity is gigantic, they try to "bring-down" the concept instead of bring-down themselves. |
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| Aortik |
I obviously didn't see the original proposition as a question of science at all, but ethics and free will.
A 'thought experiment' doesn't sound exceedingly scientific though... I mean, I 'thought experiment' all the time, but I don't think it's like, research or empirical or anything like that. :p |
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| Lira |
| quote: | Originally posted by Aortik
I obviously didn't see the original proposition as a question of science at all, but ethics and free will.
A 'thought experiment' doesn't sound exceedingly scientific though... I mean, I 'thought experiment' all the time, but I don't think it's like, research or empirical or anything like that. :p |
Sure, science cannot restrict itself to thought experimentation, but they play an important role in science as well as in philosophy.
Einstein, for example, used to have the most bizarre thoughts one could imagine while he was shaving (concerning the speed of light). Galileo also needed a little help from human creativity, because if you drop a ball of feather and a ball of steel from the top of a tower, even if they do have the same mass, the ball of steel is bound to fall first because of the air resistance, so he had to imagine a context in which there was no air to interfere. William James, who was a philosopher scientist (or a scientist philosopher, who knows) used to make lots of thought experiments as well.
But, that first thought experiment is not meant to be scientific. Like I said, it was a philosopher that came up with that, in a discussion about free will, and I meant to say that in a way that could be interesting to most people, even those who had no interest in philosophy.
But, apparently, I failed. Maybe I should've kept it nerdy, although I was able to gather some interesting replies nonetheless :) |
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| Aortik |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lira
But, apparently, I failed. |
Nono, I don't think you failed. I really don't get some people's responses... if anything, I would view people's apparently emotional reactions to intellectual questions as a sign of success. :p |
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| Meat187 |
| quote: | Originally posted by PETRAN
Probably some people haven't heard of it and/or probably don't understand it and since their stupidity is gigantic, they try to "bring-down" the concept instead of bring-down themselves. |
Maybe that's true for some people. But there might be other people who understand the difference between a scientific and a philosophical thought experiment.
| quote: | Originally posted by Lira
But, apparently, I failed. Maybe I should've kept it nerdy, although I was able to gather some interesting replies nonetheless :) |
I think a simple question, either philosophical or scientific, would have been better. I felt this question mixed concepts from both in an inappropiate way, and as a scientist that pissed me off. |
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| Lira |
| quote: | Originally posted by Meat187
I think a simple question, either philosophical or scientific, would have been better. I felt this question mixed concepts from both in an inapropiate way, and as a scientist that pissed me off. |
What do you study?
I think you said you were a biologist, but I could be mistaken... |
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| Meat187 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lira
What do you study? |
Electrical Engineering. |
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