|
This is how to talk to Iran (pg. 2)
|
View this Thread in Original format
| ziptnf |
| quote: | Originally posted by The17sss
Dude, you believe in god. enough said.
/thread |
Do you believe in ANYTHING? Faith, hope, love? Or are you just some sort of soulless drone who lives every day with nothing but skepticism and pessimism?
That being said, I'm an athiest, but at least I give things a chance. |
|
|
| Lemonad |
| quote: | Originally posted by ziptnf
Do you believe in ANYTHING? Faith, hope, love? Or are you just some sort of soulless drone who lives every day with nothing but skepticism and pessimism?
That being said, I'm an athiest, but at least I give things a chance. |
What does Hope and Love got to do with believing with god? |
|
|
| ziptnf |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lemonad
What does Hope and Love got to do with believing with god? |
I didn't say feeling emotions like hope and love had anything to do with god, but his comment was completely irrelevant and pointless. |
|
|
| The17sss |
| quote: | Originally posted by ziptnf
Do you believe in ANYTHING? Faith, hope, love? Or are you just some sort of soulless drone who lives every day with nothing but skepticism and pessimism?
That being said, I'm an athiest, but at least I give things a chance. |
Sure I do man... I believe that people have unlimited potential, and that religion teaches people to be satisfied to a degree with fairy tale promises of the afterlife, based on nothing logical. The short version is, I believe people are masters of their own destiny, and this is the only life we have so we need to make the most of it while we're here.
I gave things a chance... which is why I am also an athiest. Grew up in a Catholic family, went to Catholic school, and just couldn't square what people were telling me to believe, when they couldn't know either, and decided for myself there there's just not enough evidence to believe in something so omnipotent as "God". Hey, if I'm proven wrong some day, somehow, I'll gladly accept that reality. I am a bit of a cynic, but sometimes that's healthy in a world where so many people think they know what's best for everyone else. I believe in love (I'm married for the right reasons and I love my family and friends), and I'm really an emotional person. My disdain is largely for liberal politicians and their creeping nanny state policies. |
|
|
| Clovis |
| quote: | Originally posted by djjoshuaallen
im skptical, considering those he is attempting to reason with. Awaiting results... |
What do you mean "those"?
By appealing mostly directly to the people of Iran he is directing said "reason" exactly where it should go.
The Iranian leadership and the Iranian people are two different things. |
|
|
| Lebezniatnikov |
| quote: | Originally posted by The17sss
Dude, you believe in god. enough said.
/thread |
Holy red herring, Batman. And way to use a person's beliefs on faith as an insult.  |
|
|
| The17sss |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov
Holy red herring, Batman. And way to use a person's beliefs on faith as an insult. |
It's called "tongue in cheek"... I know you liberals are so caught up in political correctness and feeling offended, but for the love of Pete. Lighten up son! :toocool: |
|
|
| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by The17sss
It's called "tongue in cheek"... I know you liberals are so caught up in political correctness and feeling offended, but for the love of Pete. Lighten up son! :toocool: |
it has nothing to do with 'political correctness' and everything to do with being relevant. im sure youre aware im a big fan of insulting religion, but i at least try and relate it to what im talking about. |
|
|
| hardcore trancer |
| quote: | Originally posted by Krypton
Finally, some sanity in the White House... |
+1
About in time!!!! |
|
|
| The17sss |
.... but I digress. Back on topic for this thread, the Jimmy Carter method of friendly "please believe we have compassion" dialogue appears to them as a sign of weakness and surrender, according to an Iranian ex-pat woman I was watching in an interview tonight (I'll post the link when it shows up somewhere tomorrow probably). She went on to explain how their culture views things completely different than we do (obviously), and we alread see where it's going to lead... I read earlier that one of the things Iran expects of us in order to have relations is to stop supporting the "real enemy", which is Israel, and then they will believe our sincerity.
An adviser to Ahmadinejad named Akbar Javankir made a statement, basically saying they won't forget our past mistakes and it will take more to make headway. Translation: placate us and do more of what we want and then "maybe" we'll consider something. This method does not work with hard line dictators and governments. It will only amount to us giving in more to what they want. Obama's video spurred this response:
| quote: | | In an almost simultaneous announcement, from Iran's energy minister, Parviz Fattah, said that the country would "finish and operate" its controversial Russian-built Bushehr nuclear plant by the end of the year. |
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ear-pledge.html
To say this was "brilliant" does a disservice to that word... unless it is aimed at stoking the flames of the young generation that seems to be growing more towards wishes of overthrowing this current regime. But here is a different take on this "outreach" that should be considered:
| quote: | Obama speaks as if he were campaigning in Peoria. The cadences are those of the Hope-and-Change stump: “The promise of a new day, the promise of opportunity for our children, security for our families, progress for our communities, and peace between nations…shared hopes… common dreams.”
Had Obama limited his salutation to the people of Iran, fair enough. But he blew right past them when he also addressed “the leaders” — who are apparently to be included in the new Iranian happy land he envisions. How does that compute? The folks ruling Iran are not exactly leaders. They are messianic and ruthless rulers. They are subscribers to a totalitarian system that leads the world in juvenile executions. They train and support terrorist groups such as Hamas and Hezbollah, which teach children to aspire to the “opportunity” to become suicide bombers. Their idea of peace and community progress does not extend to a world in which anyone disagrees with their edicts.
The leaders of Iran punish dissent among their people with methods heavy on imprisonment, torture and death. On Wednesday, a day before Obama launched his Nowruz video, a 29-year-old Iranian blogger reportedly died in Iran’s notorious Evin prison. His name was Omid Mirsayafi, and the BBC reports that he was jailed for the act of “insulting Iran’s Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei and other clerics.”
Just last week, reports emerged of the cargo impounded in Cyprus from a ship originating in Iran and bound for Syria, carrying (this is just the partial list produced by the Cypriot government and reported by the Wall Street Journal): 1,980 wooden cases of powder for 130 mm guns and 1,320 cases of powder and powder pellets for 125 mm guns, 60 barrels of 39 mm shells, 810 cases of propellant for 125 mm guns and eight cases of 120 mm mortar components … plus three containers too heavy to move, which had not yet been searched. As Obama should know, since his own ambassador pointed it out to the UN Security Council last week, that’s a slice of what’s going on in the real world.
As for Iran’s nuclear program — Iran’s regime is currently in breach of a stack of UN resolutions calling for Tehran to desist, and has spent years pursuing the wherewithal for nuclear weapon, despite U.S. sanctions, and more recently, U.N. sanctions. A report has now surfaced in Germany claiming that an Iranian defector, who in 2007 tipped off the West about Syria’s secret nuclear reactor, asserted that Iran was financing the project. If true, that is huge news — would Obama care to tell us more?
Obama in his message to the mullahs, mentions, delicately, that “For nearly three decades relations between our nations have been strained.” … Well, yes. Years of Iranian-backed terrorist guns and bombs killing Americans and our allies have put a strain on the relationship.
Will Iran’s top tyrant Ali Khameini and his crew call off their secret police, international terrorist operations, missile projects, nuclear program, thug-state alliances and messianic Islamist campaign because Khamenei tunes in to Twitter and discovers that Obama has just wished him a happy new year?
More likely they will conclude that Obama’s “Reset” is working neatly in their favor, and they may with greater impunity proceed on their course of “Death to Israel! Death to America!”
Obama in his video had a lot to say about our “common humanity,” and — as if he were addressing, say, the government of Finland – dismissed “those who insist we be defined by our differences.” There were echoes there of another statesman’s remarks: “We are determined to continue our efforts to remove possible sources of difference, and thus to contribute to assure the peace… “ That statesman, of course, was British Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain, upon his return from Munich in 1938 — and it can be found in the same statement in which Chamberlain promised “peace for our time.” |
Link to Iranian defector tipping off Iran's involvement in financing Syria's reactor---> http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap...UX5fBAD971BHEG3
Link to Iranian "blogger" dying in prison after "insulting the Ayatollah"----> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7953738.stm
Link to article posted above---> http://pajamasmedia.com/claudiarose...video-for-iran/ |
|
|
| The17sss |
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
it has nothing to do with 'political correctness' and everything to do with being relevant. im sure youre aware im a big fan of insulting religion, but i at least try and relate it to what im talking about. |
I was making a statement in general to the thin skin of the leftist democrat over here; all semblance of sense of humor is long gone. |
|
|
| emc^2 |
Is it too early to say "FAIL" to Obama's "why can't we be friends" song and dance?
| quote: | Reporting from Tehran and Beirut – Iran's most powerful figure today dismissed President Obama's extraordinary Persian New Year gesture, insisting that the U.S. administration's actions must match its rhetoric before Iran would alter its foreign policy stances.
Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei, who is Iran's highest spiritual, military and political authority, told supporters in his hometown of Mashhad today that "changes in words" won't be enough to convince Iran that the Obama administration is sincere in its outlook.
"We do not have any record of the new U.S. president," he said in a live television broadcast. "We are observing, watching and judging. If you change, we will also change our behavior. If you do not change, we will be the same nation as 30 years ago. "
The crowd chanted, "God is great. Khamenei is the leader."
As he spoke, Khamenei glanced cursorily at his notes, suggesting his remarks were carefully considered. His remarks were the most detailed and authoritative response by any Iranian leader to several attempts by the Obama administration to reach out to the Islamic Republic.
Obama early Friday morning issued a three-and-a-half minute videotape congratulating Iranian people and officials on the occasion of the important holiday, acknowledging 30 years of strained relations and offering a new beginning. Iranian officials quickly responded by welcoming the address but voicing skepticism about its sincerity. Khamenei today recited a list of alleged U.S. wrongdoings over the past 30 years including the 1988 downing of a Iranian civilian plane by a U.S. warship in the Persian Gulf, the freezing of Iranian assets, strong support for Israel and armed Iranian opposition groups.
"They are talking of extending a hand to Iran on the occasion of the New Year and they are congratulating the Iranian people," he said. "At the same time, they are accusing [Iran] of terrorism and the manufacturing of nuclear weapons."
Washington and Iran went separate ways after a 1979 revolution which overthrew the American-backed monarchy Shah Mohammed Reza Pahlavi and established the Islamic Republic. That same year, radical Iranian students seized the U.S. embassy in Tehran and held American employees hostage for 444 days, poisoning relations between the two former allies.
Khamenei listed lifting economic sanctions and a retraction of "hostile propaganda" as examples of welcomed shifts in U.S. policies.
"For you to say that we will both talk to Iran and simultaneously exert pressure on her, both threats and appeasement, our nation hates this approach," he said.
Obama has said he is committed to improving America's image abroad after what most analysts consider a sullying of the U.S. reputation following the U.S. invasion of Iraq and abuses of detainees in Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo Bay prisons.
To improve America's standing abroad, Khamenei advised Obama "avoid an arrogant tone, avoid arrogant behavior, avoid bullying behavior, do not interfere in nations' affairs, be contented with your own share, do not define interests extra-territorially all over the world."
He urged Obama to get his words translated, but suggested he not use "Zionist" translators, drawing laughter from the audience.
|
source:http://www.latimes.com/news/nationw...0,2638783.story
I'm curious as to what exactly is Iran expecting at this time? US apologize, send a fruit basket, some barber shop quartets and a truck-full of teddy bears?
Iran is full of and I think that it's a brilliant move. It shows that Iran is not interested in peace dialogue and will simply build some momentum and perhaps a deeper resonation with some that may be still on the fence. It's like he's saying - "we extended a hand of peace and they spat in it".
You can go a long way with a smile. You can go a lot farther with a smile and a gun. |
|
|
|
|
