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Iran appreciation thread! (pg. 3)
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| Krypton |
| quote: | Originally posted by The17sss
why do you hate your country so much, and sympathize with authoritarian american hating dictators so much? If you think our country hasn't done more good for the world than places like Iran, all I can do is give the face palm because this discussion isn't going anywhere. |
I know right, holding my own country to the same standard with which you are holding Iran, that's sooooo anti-America. I must hate my country! I reaaaaally feel like inserting a "rollingeyes" smiley right now, but since i like you I won't.;) |
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| Jake Benson |
| quote: | Originally posted by hardcore trancer
:rolleyes:
oh those evil evil Iranians. Lets go pick on them and make them look like blood thirsty animals.
Like that guy said in the video, it is hard to tell Iran no to torture when our government does it itself to others. |
Our government doesn't endorse beating women, lashing anyone, and hanging homosexuals. So anyone speaking on behalf of the US chastising Iran is not a hypocrite.
the Republic of Iran. |
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| Krypton |
| quote: | Originally posted by jerZ07002
that's some poor causal linkage. the fact that we've only invaded muslim countries does not mean are waging a war against islam. First, there are only 2 examples. That's a pretty small sample. Second, if we were waging a war against islam we likely would have invaded saudi arabia, pakistan, iran, egypt, and indonesia also (much better targets for a war against muslims). Third, the war in afghanistan had a pretty obvious cause, which even the most incapable person could discern given the war began a month after 9/11. Fourth, the war in Iraq was either a personal vendetta of bush or a war for oil, it had nothing to do with muslims. What does it mean to you that the US is spending so much on humanitarian aid and for capital improvements for the iraqis? |
I shouldn't say this is a war on Islam, but it's not a far out inference to make such an assumption.
| quote: | I'm certainly no GOP'r, but the definition of fascism (unfortunately it's from wikipedia) is stunningly close to the political environment in many muslim countries:
Fascism is a radical, authoritarian nationalist ideology.[1][2][3][4] Fascists advocate the creation of a single-party state.[5] Fascists believe that nations and races are in perpetual conflict whereby only the strong can survive by being healthy, vital, and by asserting themselves in combat against the weak.[6] Fascist governments forbid and suppress all criticism and opposition to the government and the fascist movement. |
Fascism is a far right wing ideology in which the oppressive state and corporate interests are one in the same. The Islamic state is on the opposite side of the spectrum in that such a state is almost always a highly socialist state. Hell, usury/interest is even forbidden in some countries because Islam forbids it. That's not fascist. That's socialist. This is where I'm coming from.
| quote: | | we have killed more people than islamic fundamentalists because we have better weapons. |
Which means we have a far greater responsibility for us doesn't it? They kill a few of us, so we kill thousands of them? Doesn't make sense m8 and you know it. 3000 died on 9/11. Sad. Since then, our actions have killed more than 100,000 with millions of refugees to top it all off. Really, that's 100x worser than 9/11 in my opinion.
| quote: | | We may have tortured people, but the vast majority of our population, i believe, is vehemently opposed to torture, and the practice is not only against US law, but is deplored socially. It certain isn't something to which any US official will admit. On the other hand, torture is a regular practice in many of these countries, and i'm unsure of the legal and moral standing of the practice in those countries (it would appear that it is not illegal). The fact that as a society we have opposed torture and we frown upon the practice and seek to eliminate the practice makes us morally superior to them in that respect (if their society doesn't view it in the same way). The fact that the practice occurs (or occurred) does not put us on equal footing. The standing of the practice on a societal level is just as important for our moral authority. |
At this point, I don't think it is appropriate for us to be lecturing Iran on torture. Just for the simple fact that it was just yesterday we were making prisoners into psychotic animals to extract...a "confession". So sad a lot of those torture confessions were used to justify invading Iraq. I really reeeeally don't think, at this point, we have any moral footing to criticize Iran. |
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| Krypton |
| quote: | Originally posted by The17sss
Thank you Jerz for articulating that to Krypton. You know I got love for you, K-dawg.... but what troubles me isn't the nuances of say, one person's interpretations of the Geneva Conventions vs. another's, backed by this or that think tank. What bothers me is this attitude that is becoming so pervasive in this country... this sense of guilt for being an American is so much stronger among today's youth than ever before. It's really sad because so much of the historical significance of American exceptionalism and what set us apart from any other country in the world is being watered down and lost. We are being force fed guilt and the notion that we need to apologize to the rest of the world, as if we are really an evil nation that is responsible for the ills of the world, when it's quite the opposite. |
Yes, we very much should apologize for the gross incompetence of the Bush Administration and the millions of lives ruined by his actions. The world, especially Iraqis very much deserve an apology from our government.
| quote: | | And that's what I see with you... I can't think of one time I've seen you say anything positive about the country that allows you the individual liberty to speak out against it. You seem to have nothing but disdain for the U.S. and Israel, and always stand up to defend places that live by moral codes from 700 years ago, and/or are headed by American hating dictators or militants. We are genetically no different from any other country's people, thus not "better" than them, so in less than 300 years how did we become the most powerful, wealthy, the most prosperous, generous, innovative, militarily/diplomatically strong group of people in the history of the planet? With the same shared ideals and values of places like Iran, Cuba, Zimbabwe, Russia, Venezuela, and Gaza? |
I could care less what Iran or some other piece of country does. I care what MY country does. When my country s up, I'm not going to stand idly, or even worse, be a ing nationalist GOP cheerleader when we'r torturing people and making war. It's because I love this country that I criticize such actions.
| quote: | | In a way, I don't blame you 100%... some of this must come from the indoctrinating policies of the public school systems that are becoming more and more agenda driven each year. Include a desperately sychophantic agenda driven liberal media, and a new administration that goes around the world apologizing for and criticizing America at every turn, and it becomes the norm. |
Since you'r a newb to the board, I don't think you know the old-skool Krypton. I was just as passionately conservative as you were. I loved Hannity, Glen Beck, Michael Savage especially. I graduated from a Christian private school which taught creationism as truth! Trust me, I know where you'r coming from. I was indoctrinated. Yes. LOL. Man, you have no idea, especially where I'v come from. I was indoctrinated with conservative Christian ideology. But something awakened in me. First, I realize Bush's War on Terror was a complete lie, and that my country was going down the ter because of it. Second, I realized that creationism is also a lie. Third, I realized the party I had registered for stood by these atrocious beliefs. I, the17sss, am a Republican defector.
And to clue you in on my public school experience...I don't remember a single teacher I had which injected political ideology into their lessons, so you'r clearly false on the "liberal agenda" assumption. Actually, my first chemistry teacher was a die-hard evangelical. The first day of class, told us, "God created the universe, because something does not come from nothing." This is public school, mind you... |
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| The17sss |
| quote: | Originally posted by Krypton
Yes, we very much should apologize for the gross incompetence of the Bush Administration and the millions of lives ruined by his actions. |
From the Washington times yesterday, highlighting a study showing that Bush's AIDS policies in Africa saved 1.1 million lives. Talk about ruining some lives!
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/apr/07/bush-aids-fight-saved-11-million-study-says/
| quote: | | The world, especially Iraqis very much deserve an apology from our government. |
Haha... it's actually a matter of profound arrogance to go around the world and apologize for your country, but say that only now is your country admirable because you happen to be president. And what came from his world apology tour? Nothing; the other countries all got what they want and gave Obama nothing he asked for. Hell yeah, they like this guy... all they have to do is keep showing adulation towards him and they'll continue to do what they want and get what they want. Excellent work. The world is supposed to love us know because of the great unifier (who is showing the highest polled partisan divide in history by the way) but instead we see N Korea testing a missle, Somali pirates brazenly taking Americans hostage (to which Obama refused to comment on like a ), Russia jacking up their military and planning to place warships in the caribbean again, the Chinese cyber spies breaking into our energy grid, and Ahmadinejad boasting about 7000 centrifuges running and being in the final stage of nuclear fuel development.
You might find this interesting- Obama today at Walter Reed speaking to some wounded troops:
"... first and foremost, I wanted to say thank you to them on behalf of a grateful nation. They've faced extraordinary challenges, and they have performed brilliantly in every mission that's been given to them. They have given Iraq the opportunity to stand on its own as a democratic country, and that is a great gift.
What the ? This is the same guy who said "Iraq is the wrong war at the wrong place at the wrong time"... who accused our troops of air-raiding villages and killing civillians during the campaign... who said the surge would not work. The same guy who was part of the party calling the war "lost", the same guy who agreed lock-step with John Kerry that our troops were terrorizing women in children in their homes in the middle of the night, the same guy who didn't speak out against Murtha when he accused the Marines of being cold blooded murderers (who were cleared of all charges)... who wanted to cut off funding for the troops.
So now that he's president and the fruits of Bush's "surge labors" are being shown, the military are gift-giving heros by default of him becoming presidency.
| quote: | Since you'r a newb to the board, I don't think you know the old-skool Krypton. I was just as passionately conservative as you were. I loved Hannity, Glen Beck, Michael Savage especially. I graduated from a Christian private school which taught creationism as truth! Trust me, I know where you'r coming from. I was indoctrinated. Yes. LOL. Man, you have no idea, especially where I'v come from. I was indoctrinated with conservative Christian ideology. But something awakened in me. First, I realize Bush's War on Terror was a complete lie, and that my country was going down the ter because of it. Second, I realized that creationism is also a lie. Third, I realized the party I had registered for stood by these atrocious beliefs. I, the17sss, am a Republican defector.
And to clue you in on my public school experience...I don't remember a single teacher I had which injected political ideology into their lessons, so you'r clearly false on the "liberal agenda" assumption. Actually, my first chemistry teacher was a die-hard evangelical. The first day of class, told us, "God created the universe, because something does not come from nothing." This is public school, mind you... |
Why are you stopping at the high school level? The universitiy teachings are the worst, in terms of indoctrinating liberal thought into the minds of people. I'm gald you've moved on from the lies that are told in church, but it is a reality that there are people in this world that are our enemies, hate what we stand for, and will always seek the end of American culture and civilization as we know it... and not because of George Bush or America being an international bully. |
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| Lebezniatnikov |
PEPFAR really does deserve it's own thread, since it is already shaping up to be the predominant story exemplifying successful policy under the Bush administration. Saving 1.1 million lives is a bit grandiose, and I'm confident that's a great overstatement, but on the whole PEPFAR truly is a landmark initiative and one for which Bush should be applauded.
That said, you shouldn't be surprised that I have my criticisms. :p
Anyway, that's a whole other topic and I won't hijack this thread any further. |
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| hardcore trancer |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jake Benson
the Republic of Iran. |
No you. |
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| Lemonad |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jake Benson
Our government doesn't endorse beating women, lashing anyone, and hanging homosexuals. So anyone speaking on behalf of the US chastising Iran is not a hypocrite.
the Republic of Iran. |
It's a shame the US government doesn't hang gays yet, they should start by hanging you first.
The people bagging out Iran and crying about their human rights actually don't say anything about Saudi Arabia because the US supports them for reason known but not told. It's being hypocritical since Iran doesn't have the highest executions to begin with, so your point is invalid from the get go. |
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| Jake Benson |
| quote: | Originally posted by hardcore trancer
No you. |
Ahhh to live in the US and have the freedom to dissent. Too bad I can't say I hate the gov't of Iran and dissent if I lived there...because it legally endorses beating women and hanging homosexuals and has far less liberty and civil rights.
My statement stands unchallenged. the Republic of Iran. |
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| Jake Benson |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lemonad
It's a shame the US government doesn't hang gays yet, they should start by hanging you first.
The people bagging out Iran and crying about their human rights actually don't say anything about Saudi Arabia because the US supports them for reason known but not told. It's being hypocritical since Iran doesn't have the highest executions to begin with, so your point is invalid from the get go. |
Hang me first? Let's start with your yellow teeth first ya crazy Brit.
Anywayyzzzzzz...
Oh I hate Saudi Arabia just as much for doing the same. But I am NOT the U.S. gov't. And this thread is about IRAN. Don't change the subject and argue something else. What do you want me to do, bring up EVERY Muslim nation that punishes sodomy and then bring up the US's historical sodomy laws too? And then talk about the U.S. gov't interest in every country and how that affects pop views on each country? Is that what you want? A total tangent to distract from the original argument? Or do you want to stick to the Iranian debate?
And yes, Iran tortures, punishes, and even kills gays. My point is VERY valid. The president of Iran doesn't even acknowledge them. How dumb are you?
Don't get me wrong, I know there's a LOT of youth in Iran that want freedom. You can see the women wearing the head covers more loosely every year. So I'm not blindly saying the country as a whole. But the gov't, yes. it hard. It sucks ass. It's a piece of . |
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| LazFX |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lemonad
It's a shame the US government doesn't hang gays yet, they should start by hanging you first.
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And its no wonder that you see no issue with Iran...
:rolleyes: |
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| LazFX |
| quote: | Originally posted by hardcore trancer
No you. |
There is the old HardCore I love and miss!!!!! ;)
come on man, you cannot honestly think that hanging gays is excusable??
How can anything be settled if you people(not you in particular hardcore but people in general, no matter what side of the issue they are on; I am guilty of it too) keep demonising the other side?? Thats what loosers like Rush Limbaugh and many of the GOP supporters here do ALL THE TIME! Q? Hello Q? ha ha |
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