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Religion (pg. 3)
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| Joss Weatherby |
| quote: | Originally posted by Sushipunk
OK, that's cool and all, and respect to your Dad for working his out, but what if he's wrong? What if he did all of that just on his own? |
He did do it all on his own, and now instead of being involved in criminal activities he is using a crutch. He has picked up and developed a mental disorder to help his life.
It can be used for good, but it is still a mental disorder and for the most part is one that is fairly destructive. |
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| Halcyon+On+On |
What can be said? There's absolutely no doubt that there are a great deal of people in the world who function far better in society when they are told what to say, do, and think.
But that does nothing to further the argument for, or against, the existence of a God. However, it certainly validates the existence of religion. |
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| Sushipunk |
| quote: | Originally posted by chach
Well then he did and it was for the better, and I'm glad because otherwise he would've never met my mom and had me :)
There is plenty of things that are miracles that go into my dads salvation. For example Colombia has a strict 3 strikes policy. The third time he went to jail he should have been put away for good, but through a "mistake" he was released. A week later he got saved through a pastor my godfather now. What he describes and what most as a specific calling. He wrote a book and its published. In spanish though lol :p |
It doesn't hold water for me, sorry mate. Extremely lucky, sure. Miraculous, not so much. |
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| astroboy |
| quote: | Originally posted by chach
That's a very humanistic approach/outlook on the situation. |
Are you suggesting religion is irreconcilable with humanism? |
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| Spacey Orange |
| quote: | Originally posted by Joss Weatherby
...only serves to shackle the masses and create a protected class. It is the opiate of the people and is just a fixed fantasy that can only slow down the expansion and extension of the human race. It is the cancer that is killing us. :mad: |
...and that' s supposed to be a bad a bad thing? |
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| Halcyon+On+On |
| quote: | Originally posted by Spacey Orange
...and that' s supposed to be a bad a bad thing? |
I'd agree with you in that if people want to follow something I feel slights them, far be it from myself to stop them.
Too bad these people tend to run things. |
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| astroboy |
| quote: | Originally posted by Joss Weatherby
Why do they need to believe in something other than themselves?
If people would just give themselves the credit we would realize how much we can do. This world would probably be a better place if people just believed in themselves more.
Passing responsibility off to a god, or other form of higher power is a disservice to yourself. |
So i can't believe in this laptop i'm typing this on? or the table it's sitting on? It's just me floating in a vacuum and nothing other than myself? Obviously the question is rhetorical, but what I'm trying to say is that religious views of the world (which are many and extremely diverse) do not necessarily imply an evasion of personal responsibility or a lack of belief in oneself.
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| astroboy |
| quote: | Originally posted by Joss Weatherby
He did do it all on his own, and now instead of being involved in criminal activities he is using a crutch. He has picked up and developed a mental disorder to help his life.
It can be used for good, but it is still a mental disorder and for the most part is one that is fairly destructive. |
I wouldn't classify it as a mental disorder until someone claimed to physically hear god talking back to them.
But that aside, just to clarify are you saying his faith has been destructive in his specific case or more generally that religion has been a fairly destructive force historically? |
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| Halcyon+On+On |
You cannot deny that religion is largely marketed as a big self-help doctrine. It's most successful that way. Religion primarily began as a systematic transmission of taboos from one generation to the next - a meme in nature that lends itself to a formidable word-of-mouth association - so of course anecdotal relations are probably going to be primarily positive and appeal to the self, were it not, you probably would not know about it.
God requires belief though - the notion of anything imperceptible requires some semblance of faith. Your laptop - your desk - these things can be sensed in a universal fashion: I can see, touch, feel, taste, etc. such items - I do not need faith to know that they exist. God, however, cannot be sensed in our conventional methods - or at least the sensory ones.
Now is where someone religious comes in to let me know that *they* can see, smell, taste, feel and hear God at all times - because he is real - and because they have faith and I do not. The problem was me all along! |
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| astroboy |
| quote: | Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On
You cannot deny that religion is largely marketed as a big self-help doctrine. It's most successful that way. Religion primarily began as a systematic transmission of taboos from one generation to the next - a meme in nature that lends itself to a formidable word-of-mouth association - so of course anecdotal relations are probably going to be primarily positive and appeal to the self, were it not, you probably would not know about it. |
This is speculative since the formation of religious practice is prehistoric. I would say Religion began when man became self aware and started questioning why things happened the way they did. In most cases he was ill-equipped to answer these questions correctly, the taboos that were later passed on orally emerged from this questioning. This subsequently this gave birth to philosophy which in turn gave rise to science.
What is important to remember is that it started with an attitude of "questioning" which remains at the heart of science, true philosophy and true religious thought (ie that which remains untainted by existential bad faith).
The approach of religion as a set of rules that are to be accepted without question and followed blindly are a product of human nature. The same phenomena - a well-intentioned philosophy overtaken by power-hungry politicians and used to their own ends, often to justify actions contrary to the original philosophy - applied to communism as it was practiced in the USSR (or is currently practiced in North Korea). I think McCarthyism in the US was an example of a similar phenomenon.
Unfortunately most people want their lives to be morally simple. They want someone to tell them what's right and wrong rather than having to choose for themselves. An on the other side of the coin will always be people who will want to gain power by controlling an ideology and it's dominant meanings (read Foucault on this - one of the most practically applicable philosophers).
| quote: | | God requires belief though - the notion of anything imperceptible requires some semblance of faith. Your laptop - your desk - these things can be sensed in a universal fashion: I can see, touch, feel, taste, etc. such items - I do not need faith to know that they exist. God, however, cannot be sensed in our conventional methods - or at least the sensory ones. |
In the post I quoted you seemed to imply a dichotomy between belief in a god and belief in self. You suggested that a belief in something other than oneself lessened a belief in oneself.
I'm not going to get into whether one can objectively observe the existance of oneself.. but that certainly is an interesting question.
But secondly you're suggesting that all religions require belief in a deity.. which is also not true.
| quote: | | Now is where someone religious comes in to let me know that *they* can see, smell, taste, feel and hear God at all times - because he is real - and because they have faith and I do not. The problem was me all along! |
Idiots make up most of humanity, and I have no reason to believe that intelligent life anywhere else is any different. As far as I'm concerned the universe consists of mostly hydrogen and ignorance. If someone replies stupidly to your post it will be more a symptom of humanity rather than their religiosity imho. |
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| woscar |
| Who the deleted my post? |
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