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Politically Correct and Music (pg. 6)
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| Kismet7 |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
I did, and I just don't see much of a topic for discussion. I think you should think about what you say whether you're in front of a camera or not. Be yourself, sure. Don't sugar coat everything, but I find that most people who "speak their mind" do it for a particular reaction and to come accross a certain way, not becuase they honestly don;t have the ability to think about what they're saying. It's the same thing as people speaking in fairytales - it just serves a purpose.
but your OP, basically asks if you should change the way you act publicly if you get famous. Why would you? The only reason to would be if you say stupid or want ot be better at conveying something.
Sorry, it must just be me. maybe it's becuase I used to work in TV and radio and this just seems so obvious. I just don't see how this a difficult conundrum or needs a big discussion. I'll stay out of it and let other people chat... :) |
It is an important topic, because people on the internet forums seem to strongly think that their opinion has much importance towards the success or failure an artist, in a genre in which the main product that is being sold by the artist is the music. When their collective opinion probably doesn't have 1% importance towards an artists career. I mean, Paul Oakenfold as example, how much hate does he get on TA? How much hate does Tiesto get? If there was a collective hive minded hate towards major label mainstream music artists, they would'nt see their second gig or their second album. If this was so obvious, then people would obviously stop wasting their time hive mindedly hating on Electronic Music Artists and UG music artists on forums, because it is simply that, a waste of time and energy. The artists themselves probably actually benefit from people talking about them, its free name awareness and advertisement lol.
Overall, I think this an important dynamic that underground music and electronic music has. |
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| EddieZilker |
| quote: | Originally posted by Kismet7
I like to call it ethical conditioning. But political correctness description is more understandable by people. |
Have you ever read a book by Robert Jay Lifton called "Thought Reform and the Psychology of Totalism?"
Now THAT's conditioning. To be honest, ethics seems to be something that, in the West, we have a relatively poor grasp on and I am hesitant to ascribe such a noble attribute to whatever very, very moderate "conditioning" may be ascribed to political correctness.
I don't disagree with you that political correctness has its epic failures, but I am also hesitant to discuss such matters when there isn't a very practical foundation for such a conversation to begin with. I'll tell you that I've lived in co-operatives when the first glimmers of PC hysterics were floating about in a milieu of leftist propagandistic soup and saw, very easily, that the moral platitudes of those who espoused them were nothing more or less than hypocrisy once a full observation of their personal practices was taken into account.
The women who were quick to ascribe sexism to a man's basic word choice, such as "his"tory vs. "her"story, were also eager to obtain some sort of formally ordained control over almost everyone around them. They besieged kindness to animals while they spoke in haranguing tones about the often measly indiscretions of other people and seemed to be perplexed by their own sexuality, for when push came to shove, the very who they derided, they dated.
Men, when not perversely cowed into an indifferent, pacifistic cowardice which masqueraded as some Gandhi-esque bravado, were also tortured into their own transgressions against the practical, going so far as to invite a homeless man who we found ourselves uniquely unqualified to care for, into our home; who three months later had to be asked to leave after writing psychotic love letters to two of the female tenants. He was later seen standing on the opposing sidewalk, from her window, with a sign that read, "I LOVE YOU LISA".
The old Russian proverb, "He lies like an eye-witness", seems to have object lessons that pervade such social fads. People preach fairness, but often it seems to be a sort of fairness which functions as a false axiom used as a fulcrum to wrest away the power they've deluded themselves into believing will satisfy them. In so many ways, unsound ideas are fostered out of some form of narcissism in which man (and woman) attempts to play god in order to foil his own inner-demons.
In that way, decrying political correctness is, in itself, a form of imposing political correctness. While one side wants others to adhere to "so-called" ethical standards the other side wants nothing to do with any entanglement that would shed the light of empathy necessary to reach a consensus. Each side is psychologically determined to find its own object lessons with which to debate but neither is truly interested in the logical resolution of such matters. All too often, they've found that hyperbole and other forms of logical fallacy suit their own arguments better than does the plain and utter truth.
Issues are buried in lunatic fantasies and no one who is informed on such issues has any more say than those who aren't. Both sides argue over lies they believe to be true and any semblance of the truth is lost in the mundane dialogue of pundits. All conflict is based in utter fallacy. One side believes something which isn't true and, at effort to coax a more favorable position, the other side is quick to adopt kernels of truth wrapped in their own bull.
Name any issue - global warming, sexism, racism, economics, et al - and there will be a laundry list of ways in which those who were in power found a way to use it for either financial profit or outright narcissistic gratification - and sometimes, both. Do I concern myself with issues? Absolutely, but not to any political extent and certainly not to adhere to social convention, since it seems, all too often, society is just plain wrong.
The contemporary views on illegal immigration, for instance, are often so uninformed that it would seem those who hold them actually want to believe that all Mexicans who live and work in the country illegally are doing so because they're too lazy to fix their own. Unfortunately, what's a monumental failure of consideration is that it is our country, who with our pig farms deregulated through NAFTA to the benefit of our corporations, who continuously takes a giant crap on Mexico. It is our drug laws which have created a thriving and violent narco-economy. It is our businesses who finance corrupt political elections.
The end result is that very often the people who decry political correctness are the ones who piss and moan about the "illegal aliens" as though it were somehow not a viable option to invade our country. Lou Dobb's economic parasites are really nothing more or less than economic refugees, but finding someone who can acknowledge that and see things for what they really are is very, very difficult. I'm certainly not saying they don't create problems for us, here in the states, but look at the problems we've created for them.
So, yes, political correctness may be some form of brainwashing but so is your version of political correctness - your derision of the "European" guilt trip. You seem to be advocating that ethical consideration is something that is uncalled for because it is inconvenient. With the WHO declaring Swine Flu a level 5 pandemic (sure to be elevated to level 7 from everything I've read or heard), it's safe to say that had ethical constraints been employed at the ground-zero pig facility, there could have been a much different outcome.
Political correction is enviable compared to human beings in the throws of a cytokine storm and with CNN - owner of Lou Dobbs - just now broadcasting to "Expect Death" an all-the-more somber reminder that the end result of our very impractical political incorrectness is outright calamity. I'm not for political correctness, but you've got to be insane if you can't make the connection to your own folly. |
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| cronodevir |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
"Europe and their ing guilt trip pansy ass", "WW2 fiasco?"
I'm British you absolute ing cunt. That means European.
I've got relatives that fought and died in that "fiasco", just so the jewish population wasn't wiped out and so your dumb ass doesn't have to speak German to everyone east of New York.
And you're upset you can't slag off jewish people that died because of it?
Germany is actually one of the most progressive and open societies I've ever been to BECUASE of what happened in their history. They allow freespeech far beyond what the US does and don't allow persecution based on political or religious views. read some news (if you can or get and audio book of news if that helps): they just banned a further expansion of religious studies in german schools becuase they said they would prefer to teach morals through educated values rather than pervasive religious ideology.
You really have set the bar in terms of mindnumbing bull on this forum. You are honestly one of the dumbest s I've wasted time speaking to. You really think they send you to israel for commenting on the holocaust. you're thick. you have no idea what your talking about, again. It was suggested becuase there are still a few fringe members of society (neo nazi groups etc.) that openly try to promote the story that the holocaust is a lie.
That's ing hurtful to the relatives of those jews that were killed and I hope you realise that.
Becuase these racist groups are like you and never been out of their white suburb, it was suggested that they should see jewish culture in a hope to reeducate them.
You don't even know what the reference to george Orwell means. I give up. You're just such a cvnt, and everyone on here knows it. |
You are British? Funny, most Brits don't consider themselves European.
You got relatives that didn't do for me, so? you and them. Your relatives fought for people who wanted destroy Nazi Germany, then use those same propaganda tactics and methods they destroyed to ruins its own people. If anything America and Europe was destroying competition.
I'm upset because the "holocaust", an event where many people died, Jews being a small minority of those people, Is used as a scapegoat to condemn any and all negative views against them. Its because of that bull that no one says anything when they wipe out large populations of people in Palestine.
Germany, you just admitted they want to control the thoughts of the people, """they just banned a further expansion of religious studies in german schools becuase they said they would prefer to teach morals through educated values rather than pervasive religious ideology.""" so basically they only want the state to decide right and wrong, they don't want competition from an religious judgment on an issue. Sounds Orwellian to me. Sounds a wee bit like communism too.
I also don't give a who my words are hurtful to. them. :p Its a war people die oh well. But I'm not going to lie about that war and keep of a facade about what did or did not happen. History is written by the winners you know.
Because people lied about the holocaust and I realized they did, I'm now a racist? ...lol You Fox News puppy. Look at your reaction to my mere notion that the holocaust was blurred. You called me a Nazi and a Racist. And you have the audacity to say you are a free open minded individual?
DJ RANN, you and your government [and, by proxy, your society] are the crux of Orwellian society. :p Tis the truth. |
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| ponsshin |
Kismetlulz i wanna see you post a link to the most politically incorrect track you've EVER HEARD. Even though referring to a track as being politically incorrect or unethically unconditional is UTTER BULL. NO NEED TO WIPE YOUR ASS WORDS WITH SILK.
Now post the link so I can bash you even harder. |
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| ponsshin |
| quote: | Originally posted by cronodevir
I'm upset because the "holocaust", an event where many people died, Jews being a small minority of those people, Is used as a scapegoat to condemn any and all negative views against them. Its because of that bull that no one says anything when they wipe out large populations of people in Palestine.
Because people lied about the holocaust and I realized they did, I'm now a racist? ...lol You Fox News puppy. Look at your reaction to my mere notion that the holocaust was blurred. You called me a Nazi and a Racist. And you have the audacity to say you are a free open minded individual?
DJ RANN, you and your country are the crux of Orwellian society. :p Tis the truth. |
You so ing full of . Israel wiping out Palestinians has NOTHING to do with the Holocaust. Read the newspapers, don't watch TV.
Orwellian society you say? What about that big load of bull called Creationism taught in K-12 US schools? Now ing christians get to decide what's wrong and right?
Your relatives dropped two ing A bombs on my homeland just to remind you of the 'tactics' used in WW2. |
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| cronodevir |
The Jews acquisition of Israel and its goal of conquest. Is a direct result of the events a WW2. America and Europe sliced the middle east up into sections and gave Jews a piece of land they had no right to. And it was done because politicians of that time felt sorry for what they heard the Germans were doing.
I never said there wasn't traces of Orwellian influence in America, but its no where near the level of Europe. In America you can still say Misandry is wrong, You can still say Darwinism is wrong, you can still say Atheism is wrong. You can't in Europe without getting some kind of political backlash or legal repercussions. And a lot of it has little to do with the government themselves, sure them with the media are the core of the problem, but the real problem is you have to deal with the laymen population that will undoubtedly demonize you for showing even a hint of going against the "established" trends of the current society.
Here its not so slanted. You can go into public and outright criticize the Jews or Gays or Feminists or who ever you want, and you will get little flack from anyone. Doing the same thing in say...Germany or France, I would expect to be killed on the spot, literally. |
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| Kismet7 |
| quote: | Originally posted by ponsshin
Somedayz youz be famous too:stongue: |
On TA hes not liked (well to the vocal minority at least), and the reason why he is not famous here, is because he doesn't follow the politics and what is ethical behvior for an artist, according to TA. Yet he is still very successful and enjoying his life. Which falls under one of the points i'm making through this thread. |
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| cronodevir |
| TA has ethics? |
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| Kismet7 |
| quote: | Originally posted by EddieZilker
Have you ever read a book by Robert Jay Lifton called "Thought Reform and the Psychology of Totalism?"
Now THAT's conditioning. To be honest, ethics seems to be something that, in the West, we have a relatively poor grasp on and I am hesitant to ascribe such a noble attribute to whatever very, very moderate "conditioning" may be ascribed to political correctness.
I don't disagree with you that political correctness has its epic failures, but I am also hesitant to discuss such matters when there isn't a very practical foundation for such a conversation to begin with. I'll tell you that I've lived in co-operatives when the first glimmers of PC hysterics were floating about in a milieu of leftist propagandistic soup and saw, very easily, that the moral platitudes of those who espoused them were nothing more or less than hypocrisy once a full observation of their personal practices was taken into account.
The women who were quick to ascribe sexism to a man's basic word choice, such as "his"tory vs. "her"story, were also eager to obtain some sort of formally ordained control over almost everyone around them. They besieged kindness to animals while they spoke in haranguing tones about the often measly indiscretions of other people and seemed to be perplexed by their own sexuality, for when push came to shove, the very who they derided, they dated.
Men, when not perversely cowed into an indifferent, pacifistic cowardice which masqueraded as some Gandhi-esque bravado, were also tortured into their own transgressions against the practical, going so far as to invite a homeless man who we found ourselves uniquely unqualified to care for, into our home; who three months later had to be asked to leave after writing psychotic love letters to two of the female tenants. He was later seen standing on the opposing sidewalk, from her window, with a sign that read, "I LOVE YOU LISA".
The old Russian proverb, "He lies like an eye-witness", seems to have object lessons that pervade such social fads. People preach fairness, but often it seems to be a sort of fairness which functions as a false axiom used as a fulcrum to wrest away the power they've deluded themselves into believing will satisfy them. In so many ways, unsound ideas are fostered out of some form of narcissism in which man (and woman) attempts to play god in order to foil his own inner-demons.
In that way, decrying political correctness is, in itself, a form of imposing political correctness. While one side wants others to adhere to "so-called" ethical standards the other side wants nothing to do with any entanglement that would shed the light of empathy necessary to reach a consensus. Each side is psychologically determined to find its own object lessons with which to debate but neither is truly interested in the logical resolution of such matters. All too often, they've found that hyperbole and other forms of logical fallacy suit their own arguments better than does the plain and utter truth.
Issues are buried in lunatic fantasies and no one who is informed on such issues has any more say than those who aren't. Both sides argue over lies they believe to be true and any semblance of the truth is lost in the mundane dialogue of pundits. All conflict is based in utter fallacy. One side believes something which isn't true and, at effort to coax a more favorable position, the other side is quick to adopt kernels of truth wrapped in their own bull.
Name any issue - global warming, sexism, racism, economics, et al - and there will be a laundry list of ways in which those who were in power found a way to use it for either financial profit or outright narcissistic gratification - and sometimes, both. Do I concern myself with issues? Absolutely, but not to any political extent and certainly not to adhere to social convention, since it seems, all too often, society is just plain wrong.
The contemporary views on illegal immigration, for instance, are often so uninformed that it would seem those who hold them actually want to believe that all Mexicans who live and work in the country illegally are doing so because they're too lazy to fix their own. Unfortunately, what's a monumental failure of consideration is that it is our country, who with our pig farms deregulated through NAFTA to the benefit of our corporations, who continuously takes a giant crap on Mexico. It is our drug laws which have created a thriving and violent narco-economy. It is our businesses who finance corrupt political elections.
The end result is that very often the people who decry political correctness are the ones who piss and moan about the "illegal aliens" as though it were somehow not a viable option to invade our country. Lou Dobb's economic parasites are really nothing more or less than economic refugees, but finding someone who can acknowledge that and see things for what they really are is very, very difficult. I'm certainly not saying they don't create problems for us, here in the states, but look at the problems we've created for them.
So, yes, political correctness may be some form of brainwashing but so is your version of political correctness - your derision of the "European" guilt trip. You seem to be advocating that ethical consideration is something that is uncalled for because it is inconvenient. With the WHO declaring Swine Flu a level 5 pandemic (sure to be elevated to level 7 from everything I've read or heard), it's safe to say that had ethical constraints been employed at the ground-zero pig facility, there could have been a much different outcome.
Political correction is enviable compared to human beings in the throws of a cytokine storm and with CNN - owner of Lou Dobbs - just now broadcasting to "Expect Death" an all-the-more somber reminder that the end result of our very impractical political incorrectness is outright calamity. I'm not for political correctness, but you've got to be insane if you can't make the connection to your own folly. |
Awesome =)
But, A shorthanded paragraph of what is it that you are trying to get accross would be much appreciated, because there is a lot in there that doesn't really address the topic directly. Much of it has relevance towards broader social, cultural, ethical, political, philosophical attributes towards issues. But I admire your ability to communicate eloquently, and your interest and energy inputted into the topic. But please do make it more concise and accessible so there can actually be dialogue of ideas focused on the topic. Thanks for the input and knowledge no doubt. |
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| EddieZilker |
| quote: | Originally posted by Kismet7
Awesome =)
But, A shorthanded paragraph of what is it that you are trying to get accross would be much appreciated, because there is a lot in there that doesn't really address the topic directly. Much of it has relevance towards broader social, cultural, ethical, political, philosophical attributes towards issues. But I admire your ability to communicate eloquently, and your interest and energy inputted into the topic. But please do make it more concise and accessible so there can actually be dialogue of ideas focused on the topic. Thanks for the input no doubt. |
Hence, and I quote,
| quote: | | I am also hesitant to discuss such matters when there isn't a very practical foundation for such a conversation to begin with. |
Your topic is too vast to be discussed concisely when you're too uninformed on the matter you wish to discuss. I'd be happy to discuss it with you but to try and put it in a Reader's Digest version belies whatever importance you feel there is to derive. |
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| Kismet7 |
| quote: | Originally posted by EddieZilker
Hence, and I quote,
| quote: | | Your topic is too vast to be discussed concisely when you're too uninformed on the matter you wish to discuss. I'd be happy to discuss it with you but to try and put it in a Reader's Digest version belies whatever importance you feel there is to derive. |
Your topic is too vast to be discussed concisely when you're too uninformed on the matter you wish to discuss. I'd be happy to discuss it with you but to try and put it in a Reader's Digest version belies whatever importance you feel there is to derive. |
Well in what you said above, you have failed to inform, since much of what you eloquently said is much broader towards the thread and topic, and doesn't do much to actually address the topic. So I asked you, to address the topic at a sharper resolution without the fluff and gloss you put in your previous reply. Obviously you might have something to add, and I like to hear that. Im sure there is a point in there, but there is a lot to throwaway. If i were to actually reply to all of that, I would spend an hour pointing out how pointless many of your statements are towards the topic, and thats a waste of my time and yours if you were to defend those statements. |
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