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Politically Correct and Music (pg. 7)
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| cronodevir |
Its very simple.
Who is your target audience? What do they find socially acceptable and unacceptable? Try not to appear for or against the things they are not for or against.
If you want to make money then that is what you do, and that is how to decide whether to speak on this issue or that, when it comes to your reputation and preserving it.
If you don't care because your music is free for instance, then who else cares? |
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| EddieZilker |
| quote: | Originally posted by Kismet7
If i were to actually reply to all of that, I would spend an hour pointing out how pointless many of your statements are towards the topic, and thats a waste of my time and yours if you were to defend those statements. |
You would point out that you thought the sentences were irrelevant and perhaps even why they were irrelevant, but you wouldn't be able to make a plain case for them being irrelevant. You'd be expressing your opinion, which isn't a fact - it's an opinion.
My short answer is that unless you are particularly well informed about any issue you claim to have an interest in, you shouldn't express that, at all. If you are involved in any sort of hypocrisy which somehow does not agree with your presented belief system, you should not endeavor to present any belief, what-so-ever. Usually, when one does present their beliefs in the preceding ways, they are doing so because of their own narcissism, hence "Joe the idiot Plumber", Chuck Norris, Ann Coulter, and Rush Limbaugh.
And that is just useless, no matter how you cut it. |
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| Kismet7 |
| quote: | Originally posted by EddieZilker
You would point out that you thought the sentences were irrelevant and perhaps even why they were irrelevant, but you wouldn't be able to make a plain case for them being irrelevant. You'd be expressing your opinion, which isn't a fact - it's an opinion.
My short answer is that unless you are particularly well informed about any issue you claim to have an interest in, you shouldn't express that, at all. If you are involved in any sort of hypocrisy which somehow does not agree with your presented belief system, you should not endeavor to present any belief, what-so-ever. Usually, when one does present their beliefs in the preceding ways, they are doing so because of their own narcissism, hence "Joe the idiot Plumber", Chuck Norris, Ann Coulter, and Rush Limbaugh.
And that is just useless, no matter how you cut it. |
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Have you ever read a book by Robert Jay Lifton called "Thought Reform and the Psychology of Totalism?"
Now THAT's conditioning. To be honest, ethics seems to be something that, in the West, we have a relatively poor grasp on and I am hesitant to ascribe such a noble attribute to whatever very, very moderate "conditioning" may be ascribed to political correctness.
I don't disagree with you that political correctness has its epic failures, but I am also hesitant to discuss such matters when there isn't a very practical foundation for such a conversation to begin with. I'll tell you that I've lived in co-operatives when the first glimmers of PC hysterics were floating about in a milieu of leftist propagandistic soup and saw, very easily, that the moral platitudes of those who espoused them were nothing more or less than hypocrisy once a full observation of their personal practices was taken into account.
The women who were quick to ascribe sexism to a man's basic word choice, such as "his"tory vs. "her"story, were also eager to obtain some sort of formally ordained control over almost everyone around them. They besieged kindness to animals while they spoke in haranguing tones about the often measly indiscretions of other people and seemed to be perplexed by their own sexuality, for when push came to shove, the very who they derided, they dated.
Men, when not perversely cowed into an indifferent, pacifistic cowardice which masqueraded as some Gandhi-esque bravado, were also tortured into their own transgressions against the practical, going so far as to invite a homeless man who we found ourselves uniquely unqualified to care for, into our home; who three months later had to be asked to leave after writing psychotic love letters to two of the female tenants. He was later seen standing on the opposing sidewalk, from her window, with a sign that read, "I LOVE YOU LISA".
The old Russian proverb, "He lies like an eye-witness", seems to have object lessons that pervade such social fads. People preach fairness, but often it seems to be a sort of fairness which functions as a false axiom used as a fulcrum to wrest away the power they've deluded themselves into believing will satisfy them. In so many ways, unsound ideas are fostered out of some form of narcissism in which man (and woman) attempts to play god in order to foil his own inner-demons.
In that way, decrying political correctness is, in itself, a form of imposing political correctness. While one side wants others to adhere to "so-called" ethical standards the other side wants nothing to do with any entanglement that would shed the light of empathy necessary to reach a consensus. Each side is psychologically determined to find its own object lessons with which to debate but neither is truly interested in the logical resolution of such matters. All too often, they've found that hyperbole and other forms of logical fallacy suit their own arguments better than does the plain and utter truth.
Issues are buried in lunatic fantasies and no one who is informed on such issues has any more say than those who aren't. Both sides argue over lies they believe to be true and any semblance of the truth is lost in the mundane dialogue of pundits. All conflict is based in utter fallacy. One side believes something which isn't true and, at effort to coax a more favorable position, the other side is quick to adopt kernels of truth wrapped in their own bull.
Name any issue - global warming, sexism, racism, economics, et al - and there will be a laundry list of ways in which those who were in power found a way to use it for either financial profit or outright narcissistic gratification - and sometimes, both. Do I concern myself with issues? Absolutely, but not to any political extent and certainly not to adhere to social convention, since it seems, all too often, society is just plain wrong.
The contemporary views on illegal immigration, for instance, are often so uninformed that it would seem those who hold them actually want to believe that all Mexicans who live and work in the country illegally are doing so because they're too lazy to fix their own. Unfortunately, what's a monumental failure of consideration is that it is our country, who with our pig farms deregulated through NAFTA to the benefit of our corporations, who continuously takes a giant crap on Mexico. It is our drug laws which have created a thriving and violent narco-economy. It is our businesses who finance corrupt political elections.
The end result is that very often the people who decry political correctness are the ones who piss and moan about the "illegal aliens" as though it were somehow not a viable option to invade our country. Lou Dobb's economic parasites are really nothing more or less than economic refugees, but finding someone who can acknowledge that and see things for what they really are is very, very difficult. I'm certainly not saying they don't create problems for us, here in the states, but look at the problems we've created for them.
So, yes, political correctness may be some form of brainwashing but so is your version of political correctness - your derision of the "European" guilt trip. You seem to be advocating that ethical consideration is something that is uncalled for because it is inconvenient. With the WHO declaring Swine Flu a level 5 pandemic (sure to be elevated to level 7 from everything I've read or heard), it's safe to say that had ethical constraints been employed at the ground-zero pig facility, there could have been a much different outcome.
Political correction is enviable compared to human beings in the throws of a cytokine storm and with CNN - owner of Lou Dobbs - just now broadcasting to "Expect Death" an all-the-more somber reminder that the end result of our very impractical political incorrectness is outright calamity. I'm not for political correctness, but you've got to be insane if you can't make the connection to your own folly.
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^This self stroking wall of useless text is not relevant at any level towards the observations discussed in this thread. The fact that you are calling me uniformed, within a thread I've created, that is based on objective observations, shows what how uninformed you are. Not to mention you havent made any relevant points in reply to those observations, rather some psuedo intellectual bull that has no actual value. |
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| DJ RANN |
| quote: | Originally posted by cronodevir
You are British? Funny, most Brits don't consider themselves European.
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Oh ing please do enlighten me you racist cocknocker, so how many British people have you met that DON'T consider themselves European?
Here's hint: BRITAIN is part of Europe, Goegraphically, historically and culturally. You'd know that if you ever took your dads out of your mouth and left your backwoods inbreeding unkle ing cult.
| quote: | Originally posted by cronodevir
You got relatives that didn't do for me, so? you and them. Your relatives fought for people who wanted destroy Nazi Germany, then use those same propaganda tactics and methods they destroyed to ruins its own people. If anything America and Europe was destroying competition.
I'm upset because the "holocaust", an event where many people died, Jews being a small minority of those people, Is used as a scapegoat to condemn any and all negative views against them. Its because of that bull that no one says anything when they wipe out large populations of people in Palestine.
Germany, you just admitted they want to control the thoughts of the people, """they just banned a further expansion of religious studies in german schools becuase they said they would prefer to teach morals through educated values rather than pervasive religious ideology.""" so basically they only want the state to decide right and wrong, they don't want competition from an religious judgment on an issue. Sounds Orwellian to me. Sounds a wee bit like communism too.
I also don't give a who my words are hurtful to. them. :p Its a war people die oh well. But I'm not going to lie about that war and keep of a facade about what did or did not happen. History is written by the winners you know.
Because people lied about the holocaust and I realized they did, I'm now a racist? ...lol You Fox News puppy. Look at your reaction to my mere notion that the holocaust was blurred. You called me a Nazi and a Racist. And you have the audacity to say you are a free open minded individual?
DJ RANN, you and your government [and, by proxy, your society] are the crux of Orwellian society. :p Tis the truth. |
"Lied about the holocaust and I realized it?"
Wow. Cvnt of the year goes to Chronodivir.
You are just showing to everyone out there what an outstanding cvntbubble of a mistake you are to your mother.
If ever I've seen a reason for pro choice - you're it.
You have as little grasp on world history as you do about latency and in a funny way they are both related. Go figure....
The Holocaust (and you're even more of a cvnt than I thought for putting it in ""'s ) in which you think a "small amount of jews died" was vastly jewish deaths. Please do tell us all who the MAJORITY of deaths were in the holocaust?
You're one of those paranoid little cousin fiddlers that thinks that the jews want to take your guns.
And hate to point his out but if you've watched the news (ever) you'll know it's america that allows the Israel to get away with killing palestinians - but you know what - speak to some young Israeli's (if you ever leave Jonestown) - they're sick of the war and want to live in peace. Without American support (financial and military) Israel as a state would collapse over night, so don;t try blaming anyone else.
And your view of Europe could not be further from the truth - and I'm being serious now:
Religion is at an all time low in Europe - less people go to church or pay attention to religious following than ever before, FACT.
German CHRUCHES (not the state) wanted more religous studies in school, and yes genius, when they're STATE schools, guess who runs them? (there's a reason for that if you can figure it out).
Guess where Charles Darwin was from? No? OK, what about atheism? One of our most celebrated and popular writers, Richard Dawkins, gets hate mail form the US, but in his own words "hardly ever at home" (UK).
In fact freespeech is so strong in some European countries that they have police divisions set up to protect thing like peadophillic discussion groups, as they believe the rights to discuss anything is sacred and nothing should be off limits under free speech.
And here's wher you've once agin got it all wrong - say what you want , but don't spout your anti-semetic vision and try to pass it off correcting history. go to Auswitch and see the gas chambers or mass graves - read the diaries of camp guards.
IT ISN'T A CONSPIRACY BY JEWS TO STEAL YOUR GUNS OR WOMEN - they got murdered in their millions and trying to say they didn't is the same as saying "Japan didn't get nuked - they're just making it up so we'll feel sorry for them and buy their electronics"
And yes it is racist to say it didn't happen because there's proof (not heresay) so saying it only serves one purpose which is to be hateful to a particular minority based on wher they're from. That's called racist.
Fox news? Murdoch is nearly as much of a cvnt as you, but at least he's sucessful.
Seriously, I'd feel sorry for you if you were not such an outstandingly poor excuse for a turd. You must be so scared of everyone in this world and have such a twisted view of life.
| quote: | Originally posted by cronodevir
If you don't care because your music is free for instance, then who else cares? |
Or in your case, free AND no one cares. |
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| cronodevir |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
bunch of bull |
Look at DJ RANN everyone.
His reaction at the mere notion of that some information about the holocaust is inauthentic. One tiny little comment, a whimper, a peep. And he explodes into a violent outraged barbarian. It suits him well. And at the same time he has the audacity to say he is open minded. He can't even take one comment that goes against his views.
And anyone here has the audacity to say America is bad? DJ RANN is expressing typical European sentiments. Just look at all his illogical accusations about me, because I said one tiny comment.
DJ RANN you are pathetic, and its people like you that give Europe in general such a bad name that is has. No one outside of Europe likes Europe that much, because of the PC attitude that people like you have. |
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| Kismet7 |
Ok, lets have peace in this thread, I didn't really make this thread to turn into a sidebar political debate it has evolved into. The thread's intention was really simple, to point out how great it is to be an underground music artist, because there are more freedoms to be oneself, and if your music is good or subjectively good to fans, then you can be successful, without some machine to support you or to stop you.
So lets just all drop it, and enjoy our freedoms =) |
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| cronodevir |
| Even in an underground movement the people generally have a set of things they are for or against. So an artist if he intends to sell his music still needs to watch out. |
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| DigiNut |
| quote: | | Originally posted by EddieZilker |
Look, people are bigoted and prejudiced, all of us are in some way, that's called being human. If somebody says something that offends you, you need to handle it like the responsible adult you are: clear up the misunderstanding diplomatically, or tell the offender exactly what you think of his/her opinions. Telling your lawyers on them is childish, schoolyard behaviour.
Everybody can find some way to be upset about something. Part of growing up is learning that your values and your perception of the world are not universal. Speech codes only teach people to be more reticent, and we already keep far too many secrets from each other.
I believe in honesty, polite or not. Besides, it's not like I care what a bunch of sweaty bean bandits and toothless tea-sipping limey wankers think. |
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| cronodevir |
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
Look, people are bigoted and prejudiced, all of us are in some way, that's called being human. |
Your hat is stupid. I'm bigoted against your hat! |
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| Kismet7 |
| quote: | Originally posted by cronodevir
Even in an underground movement the people generally have a set of things they are for or against. So an artist if he intends to sell his music still needs to watch out. |
Not really, if his music is good. People buy the music, DJ's play the music, people dance to the music, not to the artist's views or ethics. I'm not saying electronic music artists should blatantly be unethical or politically incorrect, im just saying that its possible to not be perfect, and still be successful. It is the music that is being bought by the listeners first and foremost, not the baggage or the image, when it comes to underground music and a majority of electronic music. And I think that is a beauty of underground music/electronic music. |
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| EddieZilker |
| quote: | Originally posted by Kismet7
that is based on objective observations |
Objective - adj.
5. not influenced by personal feelings, interpretations, or prejudice; based on facts; unbiased: an objective opinion.
Observations - n.
1. an act or instance of noticing or perceiving.
2. an act or instance of regarding attentively or watching.
3. the faculty or habit of observing or noticing.
4. notice: to escape a person's observation.
5. an act or instance of viewing or noting a fact or occurrence for some scientific or other special purpose: the observation of blood pressure under stress.
6. the information or record secured by such an act.
7. something that is learned in the course of observing things: My observation is that such clouds mean a storm.
8. a remark, comment, or statement based on what one has noticed or observed.
9. the condition of being observed.
~Dictionary.com
| quote: | Originally posted by Kismet7
John Digweed, everything you hear out of his mouth is some fairytale bs. |
| quote: | Originally posted by Kismet7
I don't think Political Correctness is important in Underground Music. |
| quote: | Originally posted by Kismet7
basically your purpose is to gently pinch my balls, right? right? right? |
| quote: | Originally posted by Kismet7
Well i'm sure its because you are oblivious to the fact that some annoying nerds like to stroke my nuts, when i'd much rather prefer they would'nt. So yes it is ironic I get into these situations, when 100% of it is incited by some bored nerd. |
| quote: | Originally posted by Kismet7
Anyhow, finally someone is actually discussing the topic, instead of another bored lowlife attacking me :) |
| quote: | Originally posted by Kismet7
Underground Artists and for the most part EDM artists don't have that sort of image to maintain. |
| quote: | Originally posted by Kismet7
High 5, you win the internets! Thanks to the internet, idiots can win at something LOL. ;)
I dont get why people always try to attack me or my threads, I don't attack anyone else or their threads. Maybe cuz im politically incorrect LOL. |
| quote: | Originally posted by Kismet7
Overall, I think this an important dynamic that underground music and electronic music has. |
| quote: | Originally posted by Kismet7
On TA hes not liked (well to the vocal minority at least), and the reason why he is not famous here, is because he doesn't follow the politics and what is ethical behvior for an artist, according to TA. Yet he is still very successful and enjoying his life. Which falls under one of the points i'm making through this thread. |
I don't think any of these fit the criteria for objective observations. They're more qualified as subjective interpretations.
subjective - adj.
1. existing in the mind; belonging to the thinking subject rather than to the object of thought (opposed to objective ).
2. pertaining to or characteristic of an individual; personal; individual: a subjective evaluation.
3. placing excessive emphasis on one's own moods, attitudes, opinions, etc.; unduly egocentric.
4. Philosophy. relating to or of the nature of an object as it is known in the mind as distinct from a thing in itself.
5. relating to properties or specific conditions of the mind as distinguished from general or universal experience.
interpretation - n.
1. the act of interpreting; elucidation; explication: This writer's work demands interpretation.
2. an explanation of the meaning of another's artistic or creative work; an elucidation: an interpretation of a poem.
3. a conception of another's behavior: a charitable interpretation of his tactlessness.
4. a way of interpreting.
5. the rendering of a dramatic part, music, etc., so as to bring out the meaning, or to indicate one's particular conception of it.
An objective observation would be that you are a young, narcissistic male with repressed sexual fantasies about men who you view as authoritarian. You probably don't know your father as well as most men do. Your parents are likely divorced and your mother obtained custody of you and compensated for the divorce by spoiling you.
You hold your own world view in high regard and view others who disagree with you with a great deal of hostility, particularly when the views of others threaten your own. The reason for the hostile reaction is because, while you present someone who is reasonably assured, your view of yourself from the inside is teetering and capricious, much like your parents' marriage. In order to compensate for the insecurity that arises, you lash out at anyone who presents a contrary view-point, as though attacking them allows you to protect the beliefs about yourself you hold dear. You, therefore, project your own perceived flaws out onto others. |
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| EddieZilker |
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
Look, people are bigoted and prejudiced, all of us are in some way, that's called being human. If somebody says something that offends you, you need to handle it like the responsible adult you are: clear up the misunderstanding diplomatically, or tell the offender exactly what you think of his/her opinions. Telling your lawyers on them is childish, schoolyard behaviour.
Everybody can find some way to be upset about something. Part of growing up is learning that your values and your perception of the world are not universal. Speech codes only teach people to be more reticent, and we already keep far too many secrets from each other.
I believe in honesty, polite or not. Besides, it's not like I care what a bunch of sweaty bean bandits and toothless tea-sipping limey wankers think. |
I apologize, but I don't think I really disagree with anything you've just said, so if you're taking issue with anything I may have said, please refer that to my counsel, Suleiman and Wittgenstein, LLP.
You'll be billed for the hours, of course. ;) |
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