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Porn causes atheism? (pg. 8)
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| Moral Hazard |
| quote: | Originally posted by RickyM
Your definition of theism sounds more like deism. Theism is more specific about the nature of god than deism, which is why I don't think think both positions ('strong' atheism / theism) are equally illogical.
Not that I'm a strong atheist by any means. |
I have to disagree... theism is the believe that a minimum of one deity exists, the end, full stop (anything beyond this is more then simply theism)... deism requires that belief coupled with the belief that said deity/deities is/are the creator(s) of the universe and furthermore that humans can ascertain truth through the application of reason. I would view deism as more difficult of a position to defend then is theism. |
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| koky69 |
| quote: | Originally posted by jennypie
If porn causes atheism, why do I cry out "OH GOD OH GOD!" every time I orgasm?? |
:haha: |
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| boris_the_bear |
| quote: | Originally posted by jennypie
If porn causes atheism, why do I cry out "OH GOD OH GOD!" every time I orgasm?? |
where did you borrow that old joke, honestly? :p |
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| RickyM |
| quote: | Originally posted by Moral Hazard
I have to disagree... theism is the believe that a minimum of one deity exists, the end, full stop (anything beyond this is more then simply theism)... deism requires that belief coupled with the belief that said deity/deities is/are the creator(s) of the universe and furthermore that humans can ascertain truth through the application of reason. I would view deism as more difficult of a position to defend then is theism. |
You're wrong though, theism is more than the position that a deity exists. Theism by definition asserts that god exists and that this god interferes with human affairs; a personal god.
Here are some definitions of deism, just from dictionary.com:
1. belief in the existence of a God on the evidence of reason and nature only, with rejection of supernatural revelation (distinguished from theism ).
2. belief in a God who created the world but has since remained indifferent to it.
Whereas theism:
1. the belief in one God as the creator and ruler of the universe, without rejection of revelation (distinguished from deism ).
2. belief in the existence of a god or gods (opposed to atheism ).
3. Belief in the existence of a god or gods, especially belief in a personal God as creator and ruler of the world.
Deism makes no statement on the nature of god, whereas theism does. The part underlined proves my point. I don't understand how you can say deism is a harder position to defend. |
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| Slylee |
| shut the hell up RickyM |
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| RickyM |
| quote: | Originally posted by Slylee
shut the hell up RickyM |
Just you read my post and get some knowledge into you. |
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| Slylee |
| quote: | Originally posted by RickyM
Just you read my post and get some knowledge into you. |
i can't. it's too bold:o |
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| RickyM |
| quote: | Originally posted by Slylee
i can't. it's too bold:o |
No worries, I'll sort you out with an audio version. |
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| Slylee |
| quote: | Originally posted by RickyM
No worries, I'll sort you out with an audio version. |
i can't. i'm listening to House of Pain "Jump Around" now:o |
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| RickyM |
| quote: | Originally posted by Slylee
i can't. i'm listening to House of Pain "Jump Around" now:o |
You'd best stick with jebus then, I can do no more for you. |
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| Slylee |
| I WANNA ROCK RIGHT NOW. I'M ROBB BASS AND I CAME TO GET DOWN. I'M NOT INTERNATIONALLY KNOWN...BUT I'M KNOWN TO ROCK THE MICROPHONE BECAUSE I GET STUPID, I MEAN OUTRAGEOUS. STAY AWAY FROM ME IF YOU'RE CONTAGIOUS |
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| Arbiter |
| quote: | Originally posted by Fledz
Amen. That's what I keep saying to people. Taking an absolute stance when it comes to religion is stupid and completely irrational. |
I think the important point, though, is that it is no more irrational than taking an absolute stance on almost any factual question.
For any statement of fact, there is a spectrum of confidence in the truth or falsity of the statement that ranges from supposed absolute belief in its truth, on through absolute uncertainty (the point at which one has equal confidence in the truth and falsity of the statement), all the way to absolute belief in its falsity.
Any rational person recognizes that, aside from a few unusual contexts, the limitations of human cognition foreclose the possibility of holding beliefs at either extreme; that much is true whether we are discussing matters of religion or matters of present physical reality. I am quite confident that I am presently using a keyboard, but in recognition of the possibilties, among other things, that I could be dreaming, or hallucinating, or be otherwise unaware of my actual surroundings, I could not describe my confidence as "absolute."
To be honest, I am skeptical of anyone who claims absolute belief in the truth or falsity of questions pertaining to religion. Surely they must realize that they are cognitively incapable of determining the truth of the matter with perfect and infallible accuracy, so I think such claims are best viewed as expressions of that person's own insecurity about their beliefs--an insecurity that goes by the name "faith."
But the ordinary meaning of the word "belief" is not "absolute belief," so it does not follow that someone who affirmatively believes that no god exists must possess an absolute belief. Indeed, the ordinary meaning of the word "believe" may well understate the degree of confidence in the nonexistence of specific religious deities that is justified under the available evidence. I "believe" that I am currently located in my apartment. But as a matter of ordinary usage, I would not say "I believe I am in my apartment." Instead, I would merely say, "I am in my apartment." The remote possibility that I am mistaken is implicit in that statement--actually qualifying the statement would only be appropriate for claims which I had some substantial reason for doubt.
At least to me, and I have no interest in participating in a battle of the dueling dictionaries, that is the most cogent point at which to distinguish between agnosticism and atheism. An atheist need not "absolutely" believe that the deities of theism do not exist; rather, an atheist is someone whose doubt in the non-existence of such entities is so negligible and insubstantial that to describe it as a "mere belief" would be to understate their degree of confidence in that conclusion. An agnostic, by contrast, would be someone whose degree of confidence in the proposition "a theistic 'god' exists" would be more towards the middle, such that they possess some substantial doubt as to the truth or falsity of that proposition. |
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