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Are religious people happier? (pg. 2)
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| MrJiveBoJingles |
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
But how many people feel like that because they don’t believe in god's love or an afterlife? |
I don't know. If the two are correlated but not causally related, what do you think the explanation might be?
[Edit: I guess it's possible that people who are depressed or anxious will tend to be more dissatisfied with the social environment they grew up in, which could include religion. This could make them more likely to question or go against traditional beliefs.] |
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| Domesticated |
| quote: | Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles
Okay, I'll drop the placebo point.
It seems like everyone so far has agreed that religious people are happier on average, ceteris paribus -- or at least no one has disputed it. So, is this just a matter of self-delusion? Or perhaps part of it is the happiness that comes from fitting into the dominant culture of religiosity and being able to relate to people who share your beliefs. |
I haven't disputed this because I don't know any overtly religious people and therefore have no anecdotal evidence of my own.
I know people who go to church on weekends and who say grace, but not anyone who actually believes in God or prays thinking it will have any effect. |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles
I don't know. If the two are correlated but not causally related, what do you think the explanation might be? |
people that have an un-flinching view of reality are more likely to be upset by that reality? i dunno. |
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| Arbiter |
On a sufficiently long timeline I don't believe that there are meaningful variations in overall happiness between human beings, though exceptions may exist in cases of physical illness. Happiness is nothing more than a useful feedback mechanism which serves to encourage an organism to repeat behaviors that have led to relatively positive outcomes. That is, when an outcome is "better than expected," happiness is triggered in order to bias the organism in favor of taking the same or similar actions that led to the unexpected benefit, but expectations are also adjusted so that happiness will not be triggered as easily again (though this doesn't mean that the same outcome won't yield happiness the next time). The natural result is that happiness is probably more common in extremely chaotic environments, but it is also probably offset by more frequent unhappiness, whereas more stable environments would tend to promote less of both. In either case, though, the average amount of happiness would tend to approach the same value (probably zero, if you count unhappiness as a negative value).
I don't put much stock in my subjective perceptions of other people's happiness--after all, the sample is skewed because clearly interacting with me is the highlight of their day.
I am a little puzzled by this, though:
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Also, if some belief made you happier, wouldn't it be the "pragmatic thing" to try and adopt that belief . . . ." |
I am not sure what you are suggesting here. Even assuming that holding some belief could make you "happier," I am not sure as a practical matter how this scheme would be implemented. Perhaps you could try to induce amnesia and make arrangements ahead of time to avoid being exposed to information that would tend to cause you to reject the belief, but aside from such extreme measures it seems to me that you would not have any control to exercise over what you believed, as you would just believe whatever conclusion appeared most probable based on your knowledge and experience.
Perhaps in some cases it would suffice to aggressively seek out information that tended to support the belief, in the hopes that it would tip the balance in the other direction, but conscious awareness of this 'plan' would seem to undermine the credibility of its fruits, and thus of the sought belief. And in any case such an approach is unlikely to be helpful in the case of religious belief, where there is a distinct lack of such supporting information... |
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| Domesticated |
| quote: | Originally posted by Arbiter
On a sufficiently long timeline I don't believe that there are meaningful variations in overall happiness between human beings, though exceptions may exist in cases of physical illness. |
Why do you believe that? |
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| MrJiveBoJingles |
| quote: | Originally posted by Arbiter
I don't put much stock in my subjective perceptions of other people's happiness--after all, the sample is skewed because clearly interacting with me is the highlight of their day. |
:haha:
| quote: | | Perhaps in some cases it would suffice to aggressively seek out information that tended to support the belief, in the hopes that it would tip the balance in the other direction, but conscious awareness of this 'plan' would seem to undermine the credibility of its fruits, and thus of the sought belief. |
Yeah, "aggressively seeking out confirming arguments" and avoiding disconfirming ones was the sort of method I had in mind. Also joining in with religious practices, associating with believers, and making a daily habit of reading the appropriate texts, whether you initially believed or not.
While I tend to agree with the idea that the awareness of the "plan" would nullify its effectiveness, I have to wonder whether it really *could* be effective if carried out long enough. Say a person tries going for two years, immersed in a religious routine and religious texts, looking for the absolute strongest arguments in the religion's favor, and associating extensively with the friendliest and most intelligent believers he can find.
I have a feeling that at least some people's non-belief would no longer be intact by the end. |
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| SuspicionVandit |
| People who play World of Warcraft are happier than those who play baseball. So yes, engulfing yourself in a fantasy world with an actual purpose to attain enlightment and superiority over your peers is much more satisfying experience. |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles
I have a feeling that at least some people's non-belief would no longer be intact by the end. |
why? i can go to new york giants games for two years and it wouldn't stop me being a packers man. |
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| squirrelly |
| I don't really understand why it bothers any of you if someone is happy and has religion in their life (whatever form). It isn't bothering you. You can continue on about your days "pragmatic and miserable" and in you looming depression scowl at those that are happy (whether or not it is due to religion you can't actually know) and nothing will change. So why, is it such a big deal to you, that religion might make someone comforted and in fact, happy? |
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| Cpt.Cocaine |
| I'm sure there isn't much of a correlation in reality, but I personally have the impression that the opposite is often true. Pretty much all of the people I've known who were truly happy were not religious, while most of the religious people I know are miserable. To be fair though, my social environment doesn't get me interacting with religious people much. |
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| Moongoose |
Why?
"Oh Sir, ever since ive accepted Jesus Christ into my life, i have been so happy as never before, it has really changed my life for the better, you should give it a try."
"Not interested."
"But Jesus is..."
"No!"
"But the joy knowing that god is always with you..."
"NO!!!"
"Well fine then, all I did was try and save your soul, but now you can just rot in HELL and see if i care when im heaven with god"
"Die you miserable "
Thats why. |
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| squirrelly |
| Why are you grouping everyone that believe in religion in the same category as those that are active "savists" and push their religion? Just because a person is religious doesn't mean that they push their beliefs. That's like saying anyone that listens to EDM is a candy-raver. |
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