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My kicks not big enough ;-) (pg. 3)
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| Bayou Boy |
The weird thing about this conversation is that I never remember having it way back when I started listening to trance. If you listen to the older trance, the kick was fairly weak compared to today and I thought those were great tracks. I never even thought about the kick drum.
I also don't find the kick drum element as strong in other genres especially house music. I listen to a lot of soulful and funky house and the kicks can drastically change from track to track. Some of the tracks that I like have really weak kicks, and I like them all the more.
Who do you think brought about the fat kick in trance music? Vandit maybe? "Out There and Back" that was back in 2000 and it had some banging kick drums, "The Love From Above" and "Columbia" come to mind. I don't know though. The first time I really heard a kick drum that caught my attention, was when I heard John Askew. His kicks are some of the heaviest around. What do ya'll think? |
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| Aesthetic |
^^ yeah back then the melody was the focus and m.i.k.e. was putting out tracks with 2 minute long breakdowns :D.. those were the days
actually if you think about it pvd was one of the most forward thinking trance producers; seeing as everyone these days sounds like he used to (only faster and more kick heavy than he was). |
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| Bayou Boy |
| quote: | Originally posted by Aesthetic
^^ yeah back then the melody was the focus and m.i.k.e. was putting out tracks with 2 minute long breakdowns :D.. those were the days
actually if you think about it pvd was one of the most forward thinking trance producers; seeing as everyone these days sounds like he used to (only faster and more kick heavy than he was). |
I know. I remember the first time I heard his remix of "Blank and Jones-Cream". I was stoned in the back seat of my friends car and it just blew my mind! It just kept building and building. The final break is just sick, no one was using effects like that at the time. You can't even listen to the original after hearing the pvd mix. And if you notice, the kick isn't even half as fat as the kicks are today, but that was considered a solid kick.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iiejgZxcG0o
This song is probably 10 years old and it still holds its own. One of my favorite remixes ever....hell I wouldn't even call this a Blank and Jones track, they just supplied the midi. PVD made it amazing!
And speaking of MIKE, "Push-The Legacy" still owns! |
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| SGL |
I found some REX files from loopmasters that have tons and tons of loops with great kicks, hit hats, snares, percussion, etc... To me, they sound way better than the Venegeance stuff because they sound more clean to me and I can make the stuff properly sit in a mix.
I use Reason's Dr.Rex to build drum loops. It's kind of like stylus rmx from spectrasonics, which I started to use also. If you have either of these programs or both, I think you're pretty set. The only thing you need to worry about when applying kick is whether to use a phat sounding one to give the track more 'oomph' or a lo-fi sounding one to let the rest of the elements in the track give more atmosphere. But, as others have said, eq & compression go a long way.
The waves SSL compressor & the sonalksis eq put together on a kick can drastically change the character. And if you want to change the character even more after that, camel phat or camel space will do the trick. Try these methods out.
Alot of PVD's old tracks with lo-fi sound to them, are still some of the best tracks I've heard. They have more movement and soul in them. With his new stuff, I think he also fell in the trap of riding the band wagon with who has the phatter kick, bassline, and whatnot. Which is why quite alot of his new stuff, I can't enjoy listening to. |
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| MrJiveBoJingles |
| quote: | Originally posted by Bayou Boy
The weird thing about this conversation is that I never remember having it way back when I started listening to trance. If you listen to the older trance, the kick was fairly weak compared to today and I thought those were great tracks. I never even thought about the kick drum. |
No joke, man.
The focus has gone from having a great melody and amazing sounds to...having a great kick drum and properly sidechained bass. What the ? |
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| Lolo |
Back on topic.
Here are a few tips that work well.
When working on your drum material, make sure that it is in sync. Remove the blanks at the beginning if there's one. Even better, Remove the very first part of your kick for example, you know, the audio material that fades in right before the kick really jumps in level. We're talking about a sample or two at the beginning. Cut off-axis and you'll hear the difference.
Secondly, you can easily beef up your kick by layering it with another one. Take this new kick , repeat the operation above, and then cut the low freqs.
It's all about precision.
I have a lot more tips for kicks, hats, snares, claps and co. |
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| johncannons1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lolo
Back on topic.
Here are a few tips that work well.
When working on your drum material, make sure that it is in sync. Remove the blanks at the beginning if there's one. Even better, Remove the very first part of your kick for example, you know, the audio material that fades in right before the kick really jumps in level. We're talking about a sample or two at the beginning. Cut off-axis and you'll hear the difference.
Secondly, you can easily beef up your kick by layering it with another one. Take this new kick , repeat the operation above, and then cut the low freqs.
It's all about precision.
I have a lot more tips for kicks, hats, snares, claps and co. |
What sort of kick would you use or layer to get that massive long lasting bass
Prog house songs use it nowdays? |
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| nicknack |
if your kick isnt big enough then your mixdown isnt great, you can make any kick sound big with the right mixdown
if you find your kick isnt as big as you would like, try turning everything else down ?!?! |
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| Tarpex |
Exactly. Usually the kick sample alone isn't the problem, the mixdown is. If you use compression and proper eq wisely, your kick will stand out over all the track.
But, if you just set a nice level for the kick and then start to add one instrument after another, the mix is bound to get all clumped up and then nothing really stands out, and kick is the part that gets it the worst.
Also try sidechain compression, eq everything but the kick and bass with a highpass filter of 100hz and then work your way down, and you'll then see which sound in particular drowns the kick.
You can go all the length and compress each and every track in your mix and then you'll have total control over your kick loudness, which will make a good reference point as to what to keep watch on.
Always remember; If you make everything in the mix stand out, nothing really stands out, and the low frequency section is the first that gets nicked. Be wary on the lower bass frequencies not overlapping with kick ones, run them through a frequency analyzer and use a notch filter on the bass where the kick's fundamental is (the highest peaking part on the analyzer).
I'm tired and wrote this a bit clumsily, hope it helps a bit. |
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| Dreamtea |
As i said before I really think the biggest problem is the surroundings. Ive also had problems with the kick sounding to weak, but recently I think it have improved drasticly because I started to pay more attention to what was drowning the kick.
Theres no need to find the perfect kick sample as long as it gets wiped out by the bass or a pad
| quote: | Originally posted by Lolo
I have a lot more tips for kicks, hats, snares, claps and co. |
Keep em coming please |
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| Cryogen |
I use mainly sampled kicks. I downloaded Hyperstate's Kick Pack a while back and they're really good and haven't been too heavily processed so there's still room to tweak them to your own style.
I watched a Youtube clip not so long back of 2 top producers, can't for the life of me remember who now, might've been Agnelli & Nelson. They said they only use about 6 kick samples in all their tracks and just layer and tweak them depending on what they want. |
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| Reno |
| Also try using Waves RBass plugin. Probably the best EQ plugin I've ever heard for kicks and bass. I mean the sample is still important but RBass is like a magic wand!! |
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