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Hybrids (pg. 6)
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| gehzumteufel |
| quote: | Originally posted by infinity HiGH
All you diesel fans, just an FYI that Audi is bringing over their A3 TDI by years end over to this side of the Atlantic. |
Yep, very aware. Also, the Mini D, GTI D, and a few others are coming over. |
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| inconspicuous |
| doesn't matter whether you like them or not, 'cuz you won't be allowed to make anything else, soon enough. |
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| Omega_M |
| quote: | Originally posted by gehzumteufel
I was not aware of the proper term, but the hybrids I was hating on were the parallel hybrids, and the ones I was referring to that locomotives use is the series hybrids. I was saying that the hybrid in the prius, the parallel, is horrible as compared to the series hybrids. |
And why do you say that ? I just checked, the Prius has a power-split drive. Sort of a combination of series and parallel. :D
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid...8full.29_hybrid |
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| gehzumteufel |
| quote: | Originally posted by inconspicuous
doesn't matter whether you like them or not, 'cuz you won't be allowed to make anything else, soon enough. |
Well, considering electric motors have more torque, I would be fine with that.
It is still a parallel hybrid. It just has an adaptation that allows the decoupling of the electric or mechanical motor. Why even bother? There is a reason why full on series hybrids have the highest return. The mechanical aspect can be set to run at its maximum efficiency (for metal bearings that is usually close to the point of failure) and only necessary to produce electricity. And they could then make everything electric. No more oil based steering pumps, etc. |
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| Lilith |
Hybrids are a crock.
A little car like a Toyota Corolla, 1.8 Ascent Auto, horrid looking, boring and frightfully reliable as it is gets 7.5L/100km* and will cost $23-24,000.
A hybrid car just the same size, a Toyota Prius will cost $39,000 and gets about 4.5L/100km*, its equally ugly, boring and much slower even compared to the Corolla.
(* at highway speeds)
For the sake of numbers, we'll put about $2000 of petrol a year in the 'Grey Slug' Corolla, a Prius would be using about 55% of that and cost $1100.
Just in fuel and cost of the car-
In 5 years I would have spent $33,000 on the Slug
In 5 years I would have spent $44,500 on the Prius
In 10 years time, I would have spent $43,000 on the Slug
In 10 years time, I would have spent $48,500 on the Prius
In 15 years time, I would have spent $53,000 on the Slug
In 15 years time, I would have spent $54,000 on the Prius
Year 16, we actually are going to see a difference in them! Woohoo!
This isn't factoring in the higher interest rate of the loan taken out to buy the Prius, (I could probably categorically state the Corolla will still be running because anything that can survive HRH's demented driving in Sydney traffic will probably outlive a nuclear war) and it is also not factoring in the higher servicing costs for the 'exotic' mechanical systems in the Prius compared to the Slug which seems to run on petrol, oil and happy thoughts.
It is also not factoring in the price of petrol over the next 15 years because I'm not willing to forecast the costs with too many variables to take into account, but CPI for fuel usually runs at about 4-5% a year, assuming the yanks don't start shooting up the arabs for again for oil.
OR
I could just continue along buying 300+hp toys and not give a damn just like I do now, even my 'antiquated' one now gets 9.5L/100km at highway speeds. Course the hippies will have you believe that it runs on the blood of Panda's...
tl:dr
Hybrids are for retards until they lower the price |
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| infinity HiGH |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lilith
Hybrids are a crock.
A little car like a Toyota Corolla, 1.8 Ascent Auto, horrid looking, boring and frightfully reliable as it is gets 7.5L/100km* and will cost $23-24,000.
A hybrid car just the same size, a Toyota Prius will cost $39,000 and gets about 4.5L/100km*, its equally ugly, boring and much slower even compared to the Corolla.
(* at highway speeds)
For the sake of numbers, we'll put about $2000 of petrol a year in the 'Grey Slug' Corolla, a Prius would be using about 55% of that and cost $1100.
Just in fuel and cost of the car-
In 5 years I would have spent $33,000 on the Slug
In 5 years I would have spent $44,500 on the Prius
In 10 years time, I would have spent $43,000 on the Slug
In 10 years time, I would have spent $48,500 on the Prius
In 15 years time, I would have spent $53,000 on the Slug
In 15 years time, I would have spent $54,000 on the Prius
Year 16, we actually are going to see a difference in them! Woohoo!
This isn't factoring in the higher interest rate of the loan taken out to buy the Prius, (I could probably categorically state the Corolla will still be running because anything that can survive HRH's demented driving in Sydney traffic will probably outlive a nuclear war) and it is also not factoring in the higher servicing costs for the 'exotic' mechanical systems in the Prius compared to the Slug which seems to run on petrol, oil and happy thoughts.
It is also not factoring in the price of petrol over the next 15 years because I'm not willing to forecast the costs with too many variables to take into account, but CPI for fuel usually runs at about 4-5% a year, assuming the yanks don't start shooting up the arabs for again for oil.
OR
I could just continue along buying 300+hp toys and not give a damn just like I do now, even my 'antiquated' one now gets 9.5L/100km at highway speeds. Course the hippies will have you believe that it runs on the blood of Panda's...
tl:dr
Hybrids are for retards until they lower the price |
Or people could just buy diesel's. Oh well. I guess everyone has to buy into the latest trends. BS. |
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| Domesticated |
| quote: | Originally posted by nchs09
If someone really wanted to get the most MPG out of a car, they would get a diesel and not a hybrid. |
This is short-sighted. It doesn't take in other factors like emissions, production expense et cetera.
Most diesels are actually more expensive to run than petrol cars, actually.
| quote: | Originally posted by miamitranceman
Fuel Cell/Hydrogen seems the most promising down the road. It will take some years, but it runs completely clean and its source, for all intents and purposes is endless. |
I don't think hydrogen is particularly viable. It can't be transported by a hydrogen-powered truck because the vehicle uses up the same amount of fuel as it is delivering. Also, hydrogen is highly explosive and any accidents would be severe.
So, that leaves you with two options:
a) Produce hydrogen on-site at petrol stations.
b) Pump it through lines the way existing natural gas is delivered.
Neither option is great. |
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| Fledz |
| quote: | Originally posted by jennypie
Doesn't the engine switch to gas power once you go over 60km/h? Which would mean it's really only beneficial for city driving, right? |
Not really. According to my car, I average 30km/h despite going over 100km/h quite often. City driving is slow when you average it out and most fuel is burned during acceleration. |
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| Omega_M |
| quote: | Originally posted by gehzumteufel
It is still a parallel hybrid. It just has an adaptation that allows the decoupling of the electric or mechanical motor. Why even bother? |
Why bother? Because that's a simpler technology to work with. A series hybrid needs a completely new control system. For parallel hybrids, you need some adaptation because you are pretty much using the same transmission. But series is a completely different beast. When you talk about a production spec. system, you gotta be very sure you understand the system behavior, failure modes, reliability etc on top of delivering high fuel efficiency. I am familiar with hybrids because I've worked with them ;) Trust me, a series is nasty. Parallel, a bit simpler, but from product development perspective, just as nasty.
| quote: | | There is a reason why full on series hybrids have the highest return. The mechanical aspect can be set to run at its maximum efficiency (for metal bearings that is usually close to the point of failure) and only necessary to produce electricity. And they could then make everything electric. No more oil based steering pumps, etc. |
You set the hybrids to work on an optimal point on the torque-speed curve, thereby maximizing efficiency. Not to maximize its components efficiency.
Drive-by-wire systems are complicated. It will take time to replace the humble hydraulic steering system. And let me tell you, a hydraulic steering unit is an extremely complicated mechanical component. You will appreciate if you try to write down the differential equations governing the its dynamics :wtf: |
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| gehzumteufel |
| quote: | Originally posted by Omega_M
Why bother? Because that's a simpler technology to work with. A series hybrid needs a completely new control system. For parallel hybrids, you need some adaptation because you are pretty much using the same transmission. But series is a completely different beast. When you talk about a production spec. system, you gotta be very sure you understand the system behavior, failure modes, reliability etc on top of delivering high fuel efficiency. I am familiar with hybrids because I've worked with them ;) Trust me, a series is nasty. Parallel, a bit simpler, but from product development perspective, just as nasty.
You set the hybrids to work on an optimal point on the torque-speed curve, thereby maximizing efficiency. Not to maximize its components efficiency.
Drive-by-wire systems are complicated. It will take time to replace the humble hydraulic steering system. And let me tell you, a hydraulic steering unit is an extremely complicated mechanical component. You will appreciate if you try to write down the differential equations governing the its dynamics :wtf: |
They are nasty, but we make the investment now, get it going, and it has time to mature. What are we going to do? Wait till 2059 when we need it now? |
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| boris_the_bear |
great picture. thanks for the suggestion and i suggest everyone to watch it too ;) |
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