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My guess as to why dance music is more disposable than ever (pg. 7)
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View this Thread in Original format
| chrisspob |
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Subtle
This is the best mothering track of 2009, its an overcompressed Insomnia rip-off and it ing rocks!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMnpBqMY0-U
i like the tune but it is certainly not the best of 2009 imo for once armins fans got it right it is tuvan |
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| derail |
| quote: | Originally posted by helion
I know several people who enjoy trance tracks (once they get going), but they all have the same reaction when a song starts - they want to change the station or MP3 after hearing nothing but the kick drum for 10 seconds. Unfortunately, people have short attention spans and get bored after listening to a kick for a few seconds, much less 32 bars. |
Compilations such as dream dance cater to this audience - the songs are, with the odd exception, 3.5 minute to 4 minute "radio" versions. |
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| chrisspob |
| quote: | Originally posted by derail
Compilations such as dream dance cater to this audience - the songs are, with the odd exception, 3.5 minute to 4 minute "radio" versions. |
quite often when i play my music to friends who arent really into djing and only like things like trance classic compilations they ask me to fastforward it to the main bit, i dont play them to them now unless its a party and im djing some people dont get the build up i suppose |
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| jupiterone |
| the music is in a very healthy state. the business however, not so much |
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| daeus |
Quivver - Brothers and Sisters - hm nice track.
Trance to me has been epic from 98 when I first heard EDM to present, bring on 2010's tracks and DJ's! |
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| palm |
| quote: | Originally posted by jupiterone
the music is in a very healthy state. the business however, not so much |
lol its oposite, whats happening in the business is great, forcing the old folks to either give up or to change, CDs will be gonne in 5 years and a new formats will show up. This is great. |
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| cryophonik |
| quote: | Originally posted by helion
normal people do not want 2 minutes of intro/outro when listening to a song.
I know several people who enjoy trance tracks (once they get going), but they all have the same reaction when a song starts - they want to change the station or MP3 after hearing nothing but the kick drum for 10 seconds. |
You just described me to a T. I despise the long and boring do-nothing/go-nowhere intros, particularly when it's just a kick and/or kick/off-beat bass. The irony here is that EDM producers are notorious for complaining about how unoriginal the genre has become and the lack of creativity, yet the majority still cling to 32 bars of a 4/floor kick drum, at the same tempo, for every song ......snoooooooze.....
What's the reason for doing this? Because the DJs need it that way or they won't play your song, right? F#$% that - I say make your music interesting enough that people want to hear it and let the DJs figure out how to fit it into a mix (it can't be that hard to do, not even for a DJ :p). And, if they can't figure out how to fit it into their set in real-time, then (gasp!) they might actually have a brief pause while they cue it up! During that brief pause, the club will empty out, oil prices will rise, puppies will die, etc. - just ask anybody who has ever played in a live dance band. :rolleyes:
| quote: | Originally posted by helion
Unfortunately, people have short attention spans and get bored after listening to a kick for a few seconds, much less 32 bars. |
I don't think it's as simple as that - you can't blame the listener's attention span for not wanting to hear what has become very boring and cliche style (i.e., long kick drum intros). People will pay attention to the most seemingly mundane pieces if there is something different than they're accustomed to going on. People can only hear so many bars of 4/floor kick so many times before seeing it as boring, uninspired, lacking creativity/interest, etc. In many cases, they've probably come to (semi-consciously, at least) expect that the 32 bars of do-nothing intro is possibly a predecessor to 8 minutes of not much more. |
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| Lolo |
I second that.
Now for a change, if only we could ignore the dj's for a second and focus on the music. Should dj's dictate the way music is being built?? I don't think so.
I remember playing track with almost no intro back in 2000, now all tracks I have begin with 32 bars of intro beat, psshshhhhhh wind fx, and, the same formula over over again.
The music has become what klaus schulze cites as being "muzak", disposable and crap music. Everyone's waiting for a change, but no one wants to break the chains with dj's.
And some try it out, and everyone thinks they're nuts?!? That's how nuts they were in 1980 when the music industry woke up! |
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| Beatflux |
| A simple solution for the long and tedious intros would to just give DJs a 64 bar click track they can beatmatch to, and then after that have at least one element on the beat(which is likely). |
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| Eric J |
| quote: | Originally posted by cryophonik
You just described me to a T. I despise the long and boring do-nothing/go-nowhere intros, particularly when it's just a kick and/or kick/off-beat bass. The irony here is that EDM producers are notorious for complaining about how unoriginal the genre has become and the lack of creativity, yet the majority still cling to 32 bars of a 4/floor kick drum, at the same tempo, for every song ......snoooooooze.....
What's the reason for doing this? Because the DJs need it that way or they won't play your song, right? F#$% that - I say make your music interesting enough that people want to hear it and let the DJs figure out how to fit it into a mix (it can't be that hard to do, not even for a DJ :p). And, if they can't figure out how to fit it into their set in real-time, then (gasp!) they might actually have a brief pause while they cue it up! During that brief pause, the club will empty out, oil prices will rise, puppies will die, etc. - just ask anybody who has ever played in a live dance band. :rolleyes:
I don't think it's as simple as that - you can't blame the listener's attention span for not wanting to hear what has become very boring and cliche style (i.e., long kick drum intros). People will pay attention to the most seemingly mundane pieces if there is something different than they're accustomed to going on. People can only hear so many bars of 4/floor kick so many times before seeing it as boring, uninspired, lacking creativity/interest, etc. In many cases, they've probably come to (semi-consciously, at least) expect that the 32 bars of do-nothing intro is possibly a predecessor to 8 minutes of not much more. |
I strongly disagree with this for a couple of reasons.
First, for me, dance music is best when played in the context of a mix. It is not designed to be played as a stand alone, and in many cases I feel like this actually detracts from the overall feel of a track. There is nothing quite like having a good mix. Simple elements from the new track slowly begin taking over the previous track, then the bass of the next track comes in right when the previous track drops it out, etc. Its really cool when its done right. I feel like each track should be a puzzle piece that can be used intelligently by a good DJ to create a "journey".
There is nothing stopping you from creating an intro or outro that still remains interesting and keeps the track mixable. Lots of tracks do this both now and in the past. Intro's and outros are designed so that the next track actually becomes a part of the previous track, thereby creating something unique in the process. For me, a lot of the magic gets lost when you hear a track outside the context of a mix because its kind of like trying to decipher the picture on a half-assembled jigsaw puzzle. It becomes incomplete. There was a time where no one ever considered playing a dance track outside of a mix, because that is where it belonged. The mix is part of the experience, part of the journey. Its one of the things that separates dance music from other forms of music.
Second, if your goal is to get your track played out in a club, on a radio mixshow, podcast or wherever, the last thing you want to do is make your track difficult to mix by eliminating the intro or outro. I know a lot of DJ's over the years who would not play a track if there wasn't a mixable intro or outro, even if it was good. Its annoying as hell if you are a DJ, especially if you are the type of DJ who likes long mixes. The only acceptable exception, IMO, is when you have an beatless intro, and thats only so you can start off a mix with that track.
Maybe its because I was a DJ before I was a producer, or maybe its just because I remember a time when it was all about the mix and there was never a time when you heard this type of stuff on the radio outside of mix shows. I feel like this is why we have radio edits for tracks. If you want to make a track thats going to play well when listened to outside a mix, then kill the intro/outro and make a 3 or 4 minute version for that purpose. Otherwise, leave the intros and outros and play the track in the context it was intended for. IN a mix. |
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| Lolo |
Sure, Eric, you've got a point. There's magic in some of those tracks. As well as there's none in many of them.
The best tracks out of my 92-95 collection were not the easiest to mix together. I can give you a thousand examples. Many of those records didn't start with a beat, but with a melody, a hat in counter-beat, a vocal. You had to know it. I remember the age of love vinyl and its awful bass drum intro that was 4 bars minus a beat long!!!
That's where I think we don't agree with each other, as I found out personally, very nice that we can mix records easily, but if most of the magic on the records got lost because of that... what's the point?
The whole thing repeats itself over and over again. Once a genre gets hype, many others bastardize it, and people tend to use the same formula for a zillion tracks.
That's why I think my friends, that this decade will be very important. Mixed or not, the music will have to be performed by musicians and not played by dj's. With all my due respect for dj's, though. But their big money market has come to an end. Everyone inside the instrument industry is preparing for this moment. And the outside world slowly realizes that electronic music loses its identity by not having true performers.
Ableton Live was just the beginning. There's more coming up. We can be pretty sure of it. |
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| owien |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lolo
Sure, Eric, you've got a point. There's magic in some of those tracks. As well as there's none in many of them.
The best tracks out of my 92-95 collection were not the easiest to mix together. I can give you a thousand examples. Many of those records didn't start with a beat, but with a melody, a hat in counter-beat, a vocal. You had to know it. I remember the age of love vinyl and its awful bass drum intro that was 4 bars minus a beat long!!!
That's where I think we don't agree with each other, as I found out personally, very nice that we can mix records easily, but if most of the magic on the records got lost because of that... what's the point?
The whole thing repeats itself over and over again. Once a genre gets hype, many others bastardize it, and people tend to use the same formula for a zillion tracks.
That's why I think my friends, that this decade will be very important. Mixed or not, the music will have to be performed by musicians and not played by dj's. With all my due respect for dj's, though. But their big money market has come to an end. Everyone inside the instrument industry is preparing for this moment. And the outside world slowly realizes that electronic music loses its identity by not having true performers.
Ableton Live was just the beginning. There's more coming up. We can be pretty sure of it. |
i hate to play dumb here but if you cut out the dj's how will the producers get there music played? does this meen a new wave off producers who only play thier via live gigs,rather then conforming to the mp3/cd formate.:conf: |
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