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Dear Mr. Club Owner... (pg. 10)
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View this Thread in Original format
| Orko |
Vdub Jay, you guys are completely distorting things.
A lot of requests in this thread have been completely legitimate and warranted, anybody who goes out enough can see it.
Introducing pricing of other countries just doesn't make sense. Most of the costs associated with running a club are local, it is not like buying a laptop in Japan and here. Plus, if we do in fact have lower prices here, and there is still room for improvement, why not strive for that?
From what I have read, people are not bitching about prices to get in, or cheaper drinks(yes they were mentioned), more DJ's. What they have asked is to be let in earlier and improve conditions while they are there, so they can spend [b[]more[/b] money, for longer periods of time. Isn't that in your best interest?
Fine some people have no idea how to run a club, which is fair, they wont run clubs. But it seems like you guys are forgetting how to be patrons yourselves. |
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| Jayx1 |
actually... as both a patron and a club employee i understand both.
When i go to a club i expect to pay cover, i expect to line up, i expect the music to be loud, i expect the place to be crowded.
If any of these things dont happen i consider it a privelege and a lucky day. But i also realize that someone has to compensate financially for the lack of any one of the conditions above.
And quite simply if i dont agree with the cover charge vis a vis the venue and the talent offered i dont go. If i dont want to stand in line i go earlier, or i dont go! (i always show up to a big event super early to avoid the BS). As for loud music, if its not loud enough i consider this to be a rip off as part of a club experience is to be immersed into the sound and lighting of the club. Especially since im going FOR the music, not the hoes, not the booze or anything else. As for crowded, thats a nightclub. It can be less crowded but that means id have to pay more to get in.
No one said anything about bringing in the pricing of other countries. What i am saying is that we have it pretty good here considering the venues, talent etc that we have compared to the cost involved to get in. The only people in 15 years who have hiked prices in relation to clubs are the parking lot guys. Otherwise the prices are still pretty well the same compared to 1995. |
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| Jayx1 |
Dear Patrons:
Quit shoving and pushing as if you are the only person who deserves to occupy the space you are in. In 15 years of clubbing i have never seen such brazen shoving that actually is borderline assault. More and more im getting the back arm across the chest or back and the sweeping motion designed to push you out of the way so they can shove past. PEOPLE DO THIS EVEN IF THERE IS 20 FEET OF SPACE TO GO AROUND IN!!
Patience people!! Seriously... |
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| Skipper |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
actually... as both a patron and a club employee i understand both.
When i go to a club i expect to pay cover, i expect to line up, i expect the music to be loud, i expect the place to be crowded.
If any of these things dont happen i consider it a privelege and a lucky day. But i also realize that someone has to compensate financially for the lack of any one of the conditions above.
And quite simply if i dont agree with the cover charge vis a vis the venue and the talent offered i dont go. If i dont want to stand in line i go earlier, or i dont go! (i always show up to a big event super early to avoid the BS). As for loud music, if its not loud enough i consider this to be a rip off as part of a club experience is to be immersed into the sound and lighting of the club. Especially since im going FOR the music, not the hoes, not the booze or anything else. As for crowded, thats a nightclub. It can be less crowded but that means id have to pay more to get in.
No one said anything about bringing in the pricing of other countries. What i am saying is that we have it pretty good here considering the venues, talent etc that we have compared to the cost involved to get in. The only people in 15 years who have hiked prices in relation to clubs are the parking lot guys. Otherwise the prices are still pretty well the same compared to 1995. |
I completely agree on all points. The only thing I would add is that what is not acceptable is for a club to be packed beyond capacity, to the point where safety is a concern. If I'm going to an unlicensed/unregulated venue fine, but proper event venues should adhere to capacity laws.
Re. everything else tho, the best way to get the club to address certain issues is to stop paying. |
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| LightsOut |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
everytime ive been in europe the minimum cover for a PUB on a weekend to see dj nobody was 10-15 Euros.
now bring in ONE top name or guest and that goes to about 30 or 40 Euros.
Clubs that have several guests tend to run about 50 Euros or more.
Drinks are usually about 7-10 Euros.
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This isn't exactly true, and it I've found that the prices are almost entirely dependent on which country your visiting...
The UK, France, and obviously the bigger "touristy" places like Ibiza and Mykonos tend to be exactly as you described, big cover charge, expensive drinks, etc....
But their are exceptions, such as Berlin, Warsaw, Florence, Croatia, amongst others, where it's quite economical. In Berlin for example, I'd consider it unusual to pay more than €20 cover, even with a crazy crazy lineup (obviously festivals are the exception). In fact, cover is more likely to be anywhere from €8-€15. Drinks are usually around €4-€6. However the trade off, in Berlin anyways, is a ridiculously tight door policy, which imo isn't really a downside...
Truth be told, if you forget about airfare, clubbing in Europe can actually be done pretty cheap, if you go to the right country and can get through the door.. |
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| jsibilin |
a little off topic but this is the reverse... I actually go up to club owners and thank them for their effort and hard work in making their club what it is!
I usually go up and say " i really like what you've done with the place "
Reason being if nobody thanked them they would feel as if they were putting in all that hard work for nothing.
just my two cents! |
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| FunkyCrew |
re: the argument about ear plugs
I think NONE of the clubs should have noise levels so unbearable that one has to wear ear plugs
And before promoters start jumping in about "but but but the sound guy iS AWESOME, and maybe you should find better areas on the dancefloor" - ugh, no. ANY spot on the dance floor should have enjoyable sound. Why the hell are you guys renovating every few years?
just my 2 cents as well :) |
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| Dark_Archonis |
| quote: | Originally posted by VDub
I think all of these experts should pool their money and open up a club...
Revolve its operating philosophy around 100% customer service with all of these issues as well as all of the bitching issues we've heard on TA over the years...
World class DJs every weekend
$5 cover all the time
$2 every drink
free water
only hire nice guys for security
have 5 entrances so there are no lines
limit capacity so there is 5 square feet around all patrons
what else???
Oh yah
free earplugs...
For sure this place would stay open for many years... |
Great, so now we have so-called "business experts" or "club experts" criticizing the ideas in this thread?
Unless you actually own and run a club, your comments have no more credibility and weight than anyone else's here.
Guess what, many clubs in Toronto have failed while implementing exactly ZERO of these ideas.
Quite a few clubs in Toronto have failed while implementing a "customer last" philosophy.
Also, guess what, some of the BEST club events I've ever been to in Toronto were either no cover, or only $10-15 to get in.
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
everytime ive been in europe the minimum cover for a PUB on a weekend to see dj nobody was 10-15 Euros.
now bring in ONE top name or guest and that goes to about 30 or 40 Euros.
Clubs that have several guests tend to run about 50 Euros or more.
Drinks are usually about 7-10 Euros.
Even in China they were charging the equivalent of $45 canadian dollars at the door for Ferry Corsten and it was rammed! Oh and bottles there were about $200 (minimum 3)
In Wales i paid 25 pounds for Guy Ornadel.
Lets not even talk about Ibiza.. take the top prices i just mentioned and double them.
As for guest list. It doesnt exist anywhere else like it does here!
The only place ive been where its been cheaper to party was argentina and thats because they devalued their currency. But even still, for them $50 pesos was like us spending $100 considering they make on average $1000 pesos a month.
So yeah, clubs in toronto are economical. |
Ah, so now I see your context.
Now let's compare apples-to-apples, shall we? A lot of people in relatively poor countries can't afford to go clubbing.
Likewise, some people in Toronto can't afford clubbing. We are NOT talking about those people. We are strictly talking about people who can afford clubbing.
Comparing Ibiza is meaningless. Ibiza is legendary, and the line-up of DJs that come there as well as the things that go on in clubs there, people can only dream of in Toronto. Of course it's going to be expensive there.
Where exactly in Europe have you paid 10-15 Euros to see DJ X at a pub, I'm just curious. Also did you enjoy those nights?
Here's a newsflash for you, I've paid $10-15 to get into pubs in Toronto and the GTA area, and the "DJ" present at some of those nights is worse than "DJ nobody". Having paid $10-15, I would then have to put up with a "DJ" who could not even beatmatch, and who usually is not even *AT* the decks 50% of the time, instead he just puts some CD in to play and mingles at the bar.
Also, where exactly in Europe does it cost over 50 Euros for several guests at a club?
Here's a fact: events like Trance Energy or Sensation in Europe usually only cost 45-50 Euros. Trance Energy tickets this year are 47 Euros. For the price, you get a line-up that absolutely annihilates and obliterates *ANYTHING* offered in Toronto, let alone Canada. Sensation offers a world-class experience and atmosphere unlike anything ever seen in Toronto or Canada. It's like combining a Cirque du Soleil show with a huge club event, except on a much bigger scale.
Last year in Eastern Europe, there was a big Tiesto event, and tickets cost only an equivalent of $35-40 dollars. The event had a better atmosphere, stage setup, and overall better everything than Tiesto's Arrow Hall event here. He also played a pretty good set there, unlike the joke of a set he played over in Arrow Hall. I use Tiesto as an extremely obvious example of a major DJ event.
Fact is, you get what you pay for.
Sure, for some of you, Toronto might "seem" economical, but Toronto does not get world-class variety, nor does it get world-class atmosphere, stage setups, lighting, etc.
Some things like a great party atmosphere, money can't buy. That definitely factors into the economical argument.
There is also something else to consider: many clubs in Toronto do not stay open all night. Think about the "economical" aspect of that, versus many clubs in Europe that stay open all night into the morning.
This is not even getting into events like Street Parade or Love Parade, which are incredibly economical.
| quote: | Originally posted by Skipper
Re. everything else tho, the best way to get the club to address certain issues is to stop paying. |
Many people, along with myself, have stopped paying for clubs in Toronto long ago. This has not really changed the perspective of club owners here. Unfortunately, this is simply part of the culture of Toronto; a culture of profits first, everything else second, a culture of mediocrity and a culture of zero accountability.
I actually met a club owner in the city who was going through some rough times with his club. He blamed everyone and everything around him, but he refused to put any sort of blame on himself, that his perspective and point-of-view of running a club was wrong.
| quote: | Originally posted by LightsOut
This isn't exactly true, and it I've found that the prices are almost entirely dependent on which country your visiting...
The UK, France, and obviously the bigger "touristy" places like Ibiza and Mykonos tend to be exactly as you described, big cover charge, expensive drinks, etc....
But their are exceptions, such as Berlin, Warsaw, Florence, Croatia, amongst others, where it's quite economical. In Berlin for example, I'd consider it unusual to pay more than €20 cover, even with a crazy crazy lineup (obviously festivals are the exception). In fact, cover is more likely to be anywhere from €8-€15. Drinks are usually around €4-€6. However the trade off, in Berlin anyways, is a ridiculously tight door policy, which imo isn't really a downside...
Truth be told, if you forget about airfare, clubbing in Europe can actually be done pretty cheap, if you go to the right country and can get through the door.. |
Exactly. |
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| rabbitjoker |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
Dear Patrons:
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Why don't you start your own thread (hopefully on another message board)?
Stop being a perpetual thread ter and let people provide feedback or suggestions to business owners without the useless fecal stew that emanates from your every key press. |
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| ~C~ |
| quote: | Originally posted by Skipper
I completely agree on all points. The only thing I would add is that what is not acceptable is for a club to be packed beyond capacity, to the point where safety is a concern. If I'm going to an unlicensed/unregulated venue fine, but proper event venues should adhere to capacity laws. |
I agree with your point that it's unacceptable for clubs to be over capacity, esp. for the safety of it's patrons.
I hate OVERLY packed clubs, whether they are at capacity of not. People should be able to move around, and dance comfortably. I pay to come to your club to drink and dance, not to be shoved and have drinks spilled on me all night.
Not feeling claustrophobic and being able to move/dance = a pleasant clubbing experience = me returning to your club in the future.
Me not being able to move or dance, and not getting into a bathroom stall, or getting a drink for over 15+ mins of waiting in line = me never coming back to your club, AND, telling anyone who asks about it, to never to go there as well. |
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| Capo di tutti |
| quote: | Originally posted by rabbitjoker
Why don't you start your own thread (hopefully on another message board)?
Stop being a perpetual thread ter and let people provide feedback or suggestions to business owners without the useless fecal stew that emanates from your every key press. |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzcVvTHZlQo
^ take this clip as a warning shot...
you do NOT wanna mess with RJ... |
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| Jayx1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by FunkyCrew
re: the argument about ear plugs
I think NONE of the clubs should have noise levels so unbearable that one has to wear ear plugs
And before promoters start jumping in about "but but but the sound guy iS AWESOME, and maybe you should find better areas on the dancefloor" - ugh, no. ANY spot on the dance floor should have enjoyable sound. Why the hell are you guys renovating every few years?
just my 2 cents as well :) |
whats bearable to some is unbearable to others.
Whats perfectly fine soundwise for me and you would undoubtedly give my mother a heart attack (probably literally!). Its all relevant really. |
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