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Best VST for arpeggio design? (pg. 3)
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| cryophonik |
| quote: | Originally posted by StephenWiley
Last thing we need is people thinking they can make a track out of a few chords. |
Most of my tracks are made out of a few chords. :p
Seriously though, I hear you, but I don't see the problem with tools like this. If a complete newb can find a way to create a masterpiece using something like Catanya, I say more power to him. In reality, it doesn't happen that way. Producers often seem to be more caught up in the process and whether or not other producers have "paid their dues" than they are in the final product. The best producers, musicians, and composers will consistently put out good work and get the most out of their tools, the fakers usually don't. |
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| TranceLover007 |
| quote: | Originally posted by cryophonik
Most of my tracks are made out of a few chords. :p
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+1
| quote: | Originally posted by cryophonik
The best producers, musicians, and composers will consistently put out good work and get the most out of their tools, the fakers usually don't. |
+1 Dave
| quote: | Originally posted by StephenWiley
Just trying to take the attention away from Catanya. Last thing we need is people thinking they can make a track out of a few chords. |
Don't now what is wrong with using existing tool/programs to help you cut production time. I'm not a programmer but I'm using a lot of different programs to help me design my product, I'm not car designer but I can be a good driver, I didn't design photo camera but I can be a great photographer/artist, I didn't design tennis racket but I can be number 1 in the world, I didn't .......... .
So, now you can see that I'm going to use whatever tool is available to let me transfer my thoughts, my idea, my imagination to the form that other people will understand and appreciate that effort.
Cheers |
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| mfitterer1 |
People are all in this for different reasons. It's already been proven that simple CAN work and does for many people (i.e. Prydz).
As long as it sounds good do it. I am willing to bet Cryo is one of the most knowledgeable producers on this forum. That doesn't make his music better than anyone elses.
Non industry folk not only are going to be clueless about what they're hearing; but on top of that only care that it sounds good. To me that is all that matters because unlike a lot of the other clowns these days; I am focusing on the fan/consumer; not djs.
So if Catanya helps newbs put out products above their level of expertise and it sounds good why would you or anyone else be upset at that? |
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| DjStephenWiley |
you just don't understand because you likely do not have catanya. it basically has 1200 midi arp's built in and you can record them as MIDI in your DAW. There are melodies, arps, R&B stuff that sounds good at high BPM's, etc.
It's a great step sequencer, but it's also a "MIDI Factory" and I can see a lot of people using it for that.
Literally, you hold down ACE for four bars and you can just start scrolling through different midi patterns and hearing them in real time. Once you're happy, you pick it and move on to the next instrument and find a pattern you're comfortable with there. Again, all you gotta do is copy the chord to the next channel, throw on your vst, and start scrolling through the patterns. Again and again and again. It also has a randomized groove function, so you can kinda like a pattern and then sit there and push the random groove button 20 times till you hear what you like.
I'm sorry but to me that is not being an artist. There is nothing artistic about what I wrote above. Just my opinion.
And finally as Cryo said, these programs (there are more like it that do so much work for you such as Improvisator) won't take you far. You're not going to get top shelf results and you will be absolutely lost if you were to ever walk into a studio with other producers or do a collab etc. So really this thing is actually detrimental if you're using it for the wrong reasons.....but we live in a microwave world (want it now now now now) so I'm sure everybody will be using Catanya soon as its becoming more and more talked about. Soon we'll be recognizing patterns in songs like we do Virus' in tracks. No doubt the guy who made Catanya will sell more sequence banks for $$$$$. Sorry but I think it's lame that one can hold down ACE and scroll through pre-made sequences until they hear a pattern they want.
I would honestly recommend Thesys over Catanya but it does cost more.
I kinda disagree that they are two completely different things Cryo. Thesys has good step sequencing ability but arguably not as good as Catanya (from a pure sequencing standpoint). Thesys is more flexible in my opinion because you have more parameters to control like the Gate.
I found I could generate a better groove in Thesys, but I got more syncopation out of Catanya and I can pump out sequences much quicker. It really comes down to a preference thing. Do the demo's (not sure if Catanya has one) and then decide for yourself. Thesys and Catanya are without question "leaders of the pack" when it comes to advanced step sequencing. |
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| cryophonik |
| quote: | Originally posted by DjStephenWiley
I would honestly recommend Thesys over Catanya |
So would I, generally speaking, but not for the OP's stated need. Catanya will do exactly what he wants (i.e., allow him to create his own arp patterns and export the notes to his piano roll). Thesys will not.
| quote: | Originally posted by DjStephenWiley
I kinda disagree that they are two completely different things Cryo.
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Catanya is an arpeggiator, Thesys is a step sequencer. They're not the same thing. Try playing an Amin chord into Catanya and you'll hear an arpeggiated version of an Amin chord coming out the other end. Try playing an Amin chord into Theysis and you'll get whatever note intervals are programmed into the step sequencer coming out the other end for every note in your Amin chord - usually a jumbled harmonic mess and, unless the sequence is programmed only using root notes and octaves, it won't be an arpeggiation of the Amin chord.
| quote: | Originally posted by DjStephenWiley
Thesys has good step sequencing ability but arguably not as good as Catanya (from a pure sequencing standpoint).
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You've got that backwards. Catanya isn't really a step sequencer by normal conventions - it's just an arp. Thesys has much better step sequencing capabilities.
| quote: | Originally posted by DjStephenWiley
Thesys is more flexible in my opinion because you have more parameters to control...
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Absolutely - no argument here. ;) But, if the task requires an arp rather than a step sequencer, Catanya is the tool. |
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| Subtle |
| Arpache :rolleyes: |
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| mfitterer1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by DjStephenWiley
you just don't understand because you likely do not have catanya. it basically has 1200 midi arp's built in and you can record them as MIDI in your DAW. There are melodies, arps, R&B stuff that sounds good at high BPM's, etc.
It's a great step sequencer, but it's also a "MIDI Factory" and I can see a lot of people using it for that.
Literally, you hold down ACE for four bars and you can just start scrolling through different midi patterns and hearing them in real time. Once you're happy, you pick it and move on to the next instrument and find a pattern you're comfortable with there. Again, all you gotta do is copy the chord to the next channel, throw on your vst, and start scrolling through the patterns. Again and again and again. It also has a randomized groove function, so you can kinda like a pattern and then sit there and push the random groove button 20 times till you hear what you like.
I'm sorry but to me that is not being an artist. There is nothing artistic about what I wrote above. Just my opinion.
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First of all I do own Catanya. Second of all you are just upset because others won't have to spend as much time as you did to get to the same place. This is 2010 get used to it. Third I know exactly what Catanya can do. That doesn't mean I use all of it's features. If you do I don't really care though. I don't have an ego that people need to do things certain ways. If I enjoy something that's all that matters. Companies are focusing on creating things that make jobs easier. Technology is and always will continue to advance. It's just like the muppets who are stuck on vinyl and won't change with the times because it's the way of the past and they invested so much time into it.
I don't really understand why people get so upset about like this. If you like making music then make it. EDM is ing simple. I've taken no classes, have asked very few questions and have read a few articles and the rest has all been a year and a half of trial and error and learning what works and doesn't work to gain my music theory knowledge. How is Catanya different than midi packs which are all over the place these days? Or an engineer? It's not. You just get upset about this because you feel accomplishment from this; but in reality, it's not much of an accomplishment. People will take advantage of new technology and the true artists will use it in much more advanced ways. What don't you understand about that. If it's not Catanya it will always be something else. We live in the technological age and infinite products will continue to come out to make things easier because that's what people are asking for.
Are you saying you'd like to go back to the 90s where YOU WOULDNT EVEN HAVE THE ABILITY OR MEANS TO PRODUCE? Sure there was less crap out then but I still to this day am a believer that there is more GOOD music now than there was back then. People are just lazy.
I have no problem with you and you're a good guy and doing some good things for edm but your viewpoints are twisted when it comes to stuff like this. You're very selfish like you deserve attention for your work when you're doing the exact same things as the people you're clowning on!
It always will be the case that technology will improve; newbs will put out crap that shouldn't be released and the people who actually should be producing will continue to put out products at a high level while implementing more and more new technology; making their works better and better over time. You're a producer; not a rocket scientist. What we do is not hard and technology will only continue to make it easier. I don't really care if someone uses the same chords I would for any given song, if it sounds good it IS good. |
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| d_Verge |
With Z3ta, you can convert 1-bar MIDI files to Z3ta arpeggio files.
Here's how:
| quote: | Originally posted by Z3ta User Manual
How to create arpeggio files (.cmp) for z3ta+
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1- Create a 1-bar, 4/4 type-0 MIDI file with your arpeggio (check input.mid as sample).
2- Name it 'input.mid' and put it in -same folder- than mid2cmp.exe
3- Run mid2cmp.exe. This will create a file called 'arp000.cmp' in the same folder.
4- Rename it as next available arpeggio slot (ie 'arp052.cmp').
5- Try it in z3ta+. It's not needed to restart z3ta+ to re-test it, just reselect it.
The arpeggio will play:
1- Note On, Note Off
2- Velocity (z3ta+ patch should take care of -what- velocity does). 3- Pitch Bend (z3ta+ patch should set the pitch bend range to required and any extra assignment of it).
4- Polyphonic aftertouch. mid2cmp will filter all other events in the .mid file (metaevents, aftertouch, controllers, etc.)
Enjoy! |
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| lenieNt Force |
| quote: | Originally posted by mfitterer1
First of all I do own Catanya. Second of all you are just upset because others won't have to spend as much time as you did to get to the same place. This is 2010 get used to it. Third I know exactly what Catanya can do. That doesn't mean I use all of it's features. If you do I don't really care though. I don't have an ego that people need to do things certain ways. If I enjoy something that's all that matters. Companies are focusing on creating things that make jobs easier. Technology is and always will continue to advance. It's just like the muppets who are stuck on vinyl and won't change with the times because it's the way of the past and they invested so much time into it.
I don't really understand why people get so upset about like this. If you like making music then make it. EDM is ing simple. I've taken no classes, have asked very few questions and have read a few articles and the rest has all been a year and a half of trial and error and learning what works and doesn't work to gain my music theory knowledge. How is Catanya different than midi packs which are all over the place these days? Or an engineer? It's not. You just get upset about this because you feel accomplishment from this; but in reality, it's not much of an accomplishment. People will take advantage of new technology and the true artists will use it in much more advanced ways. What don't you understand about that. If it's not Catanya it will always be something else. We live in the technological age and infinite products will continue to come out to make things easier because that's what people are asking for.
Are you saying you'd like to go back to the 90s where YOU WOULDNT EVEN HAVE THE ABILITY OR MEANS TO PRODUCE? Sure there was less crap out then but I still to this day am a believer that there is more GOOD music now than there was back then. People are just lazy.
I have no problem with you and you're a good guy and doing some good things for edm but your viewpoints are twisted when it comes to stuff like this. You're very selfish like you deserve attention for your work when you're doing the exact same things as the people you're clowning on!
It always will be the case that technology will improve; newbs will put out crap that shouldn't be released and the people who actually should be producing will continue to put out products at a high level while implementing more and more new technology; making their works better and better over time. You're a producer; not a rocket scientist. What we do is not hard and technology will only continue to make it easier. I don't really care if someone uses the same chords I would for any given song, if it sounds good it IS good. |
^ This x1.000
It's always been this way. Technology advances and people complain, cause theres more power to the people.
In the end it drives us forward altogether. Its the evolution...
The human ego. I felt it in my stomach myself when I first saw this.. |
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| RichieV |
| I suppose a tool like this might be useful for people that lack inspiration . I think tools like this are great for amateurs to learn something new until they become mature song writers and don't need a midi generator to inspire ideas they can't seed in their own head. |
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| DjStephenWiley |
| quote: | Originally posted by mfitterer1
First of all I do own Catanya. Second of all you are just upset because others won't have to spend as much time as you did to get to the same place. This is 2010 get used to it. Third I know exactly what Catanya can do. That doesn't mean I use all of it's features. If you do I don't really care though. I don't have an ego that people need to do things certain ways. If I enjoy something that's all that matters. Companies are focusing on creating things that make jobs easier. Technology is and always will continue to advance. It's just like the muppets who are stuck on vinyl and won't change with the times because it's the way of the past and they invested so much time into it.
I don't really understand why people get so upset about like this. If you like making music then make it. EDM is ing simple. I've taken no classes, have asked very few questions and have read a few articles and the rest has all been a year and a half of trial and error and learning what works and doesn't work to gain my music theory knowledge. How is Catanya different than midi packs which are all over the place these days? Or an engineer? It's not. You just get upset about this because you feel accomplishment from this; but in reality, it's not much of an accomplishment. People will take advantage of new technology and the true artists will use it in much more advanced ways. What don't you understand about that. If it's not Catanya it will always be something else. We live in the technological age and infinite products will continue to come out to make things easier because that's what people are asking for.
Are you saying you'd like to go back to the 90s where YOU WOULDNT EVEN HAVE THE ABILITY OR MEANS TO PRODUCE? Sure there was less crap out then but I still to this day am a believer that there is more GOOD music now than there was back then. People are just lazy.
I have no problem with you and you're a good guy and doing some good things for edm but your viewpoints are twisted when it comes to stuff like this. You're very selfish like you deserve attention for your work when you're doing the exact same things as the people you're clowning on!
It always will be the case that technology will improve; newbs will put out crap that shouldn't be released and the people who actually should be producing will continue to put out products at a high level while implementing more and more new technology; making their works better and better over time. You're a producer; not a rocket scientist. What we do is not hard and technology will only continue to make it easier. I don't really care if someone uses the same chords I would for any given song, if it sounds good it IS good.
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Simmer down cowboy. I think you need to stop for a second and remember who paid money for Catanya and who sent you Catanya, for free. That is assuming you're AOL AIM is in fact michaelfitterer6. (You're welcome by the way) If not that is not your AOL AIM, then my apologies, but I suspect it is.
I'm not going to bother responding to various questions you asked. They're ridiculous and honestly make me laugh. You've taken the word "misconstrued" directly from the dictionary and re-defined it. Merriam-Webster owes you some coin for that one.
This is not meant to be a derogatory question, but how old are you? You seem to have a severe lack of courtesy (not just in this thread) as well as a very ignorant idea as to what music should be. (ie. You don't know a flip about EDM except for what has happened over possibly the last 5 years) - Using your logic, if you can sit back and watch a computer make a track for you then it's ok because it's technology. Perhaps Merriam-Webster can teach you about arts in exchange for your monumental thesis on misconstruing things.
You speak of EDM as if you got it going on and seem to imply that I don't, which is why I feel the way I do. Again, I laugh. I'd love to hear your productions. If you don't want to buy mine you can grab Oakenfold's Perfecto on Tour sets for free and listen to not only my music but other tracks from my label in the very same sets. :haha:
You say, "EDM is ing simple"
Fair enough. I won't argue that one bit, but it does raise my expectations of your productions and makes me even more eager to hear them. I'll have an ear out for those Catanya MIDI-presets |
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| RichieV |
| i feel like this thread is missing Robby. |
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