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Daniel Mackler - Essays For The Enlightenment Seeker (pg. 11)
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| PivotTechno |
I did, and...
| quote: | Originally posted by Theresa
"I am a drug addict because my dad beat me" or whatever. Perhaps that is what initiated the behaviour, and acknowledging that may be a good thing (I think resolving past issues can absolutely be positive). |
| quote: | Originally posted by Theresa
Mackler says "Laying blame at the feet of perpetrators is a huge step in breaking the intergenerational cycle of trauma—and sets the stage for healing."
I disagree. |
Does
not
compute. |
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| Theresa |
| quote: | Originally posted by PivotTechno
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Read what he says in its entirety:
My observation is that all parents, even the worst parents, “did the best they could.” Yet this doesn’t let any parent off the hook. A child has the right to blame his parents for their inadequacies—because their inadequacies damaged him. Laying blame at the feet of perpetrators is a huge step in breaking the intergenerational cycle of trauma—and sets the stage for healing.
As such, I interpret his meaning of "laying blame" as placing the responsibility for your inadequacies on someone else.
This is not the same as "laying blame" on someone for doing whatever they did and therefore, hurting you, which thus made you choose to do what you did as a result.
The one implies that you skip the personal choice (whether it be reactionary based on something ty or whatever), and the other acknowledges that you controlled what you did, but understand that it was because of a reaction. In other words, the one implies that you have no personal responsibility for your own actions, and the other does. |
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| PivotTechno |
If you are wounded, you have but one responsibility - to heal yourself.
Theresa, my guess is that you're probably way too hard on yourself with a lot that goes on in your life and that you would do well to learn to extend some major compassion toward yourself. Just sayin'...
And as much as it seems like I'm hammering you on this, I'm really on your side. As a therapist, you're only able to take a patient as far as you've gone yourself, and that's an important thing to undestand early on in the game. This requires extended periods of brutally honest introspection, a concept most people are barely capable of grasping.
One thing Mackler's right about is that therapists who haven't got their own together will, without a doubt, end up doing a great disservice to their patients. I once knew a older, male therapist who counselled female victims of sexual abuse, then asked his teenage granddaughters to give him massages while they were alone on a road trip they'd all taken. An ex and I used to go to couples counselling, and the female therapist at one point admitted to my gf (after we'd split up) that she had a decided bias against me. When I found out I was so furious that I called the bitch up and told her she should seriously reconsider whether she should be charging people for, or even administering therapy. At least she had the humility to admit she was very much in the wrong.
Here's a fun one:
A mother once came to Ghandi and asked if he'd tell her son to stop eating sweets. Ghandi told the mother to come back with the son in three days and he'd take care of it. When the mother and son returned, she became curious and asked Ghandi why he'd made her wait three days. Ghandi replied, "Because three days ago I had not stopped eating sweets." |
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| Theresa |
| quote: | Originally posted by PivotTechno
If you are wounded, you have but one responsibility - to heal yourself.
Theresa, my guess is that you're probably way too hard on yourself with a lot that goes on in your life and that you would do well to learn to extend some major compassion toward yourself. Just sayin'...
And as much as it seems like I'm hammering you on this, I'm really on your side. As a therapist, you're only able to take a patient as far as you've gone yourself, and that's an important thing to undestand early on in the game.
One thing Mackler's right about is that therapists who haven't got their own together will, without a doubt, end up doing a great disservice to their patients. I once knew a older, male therapist who counselled female victims of sexual abuse, then asked his teenage granddaughters to give him massages while they were alone on a road trip they'd all taken. An ex and I used to go to couples counselling, and the female therapist at one point admitted to my gf (after we'd split up) that she had a decided bias against me. When I found out I was so furious that I called the bitch up and told her she should seriously reconsider whether she should be charging people for, or even administering therapy.
Here's a fun one:
A mother once came to Ghandi and asked if he'd tell her son to stop eating sweets. Ghandi told the mother to come back with the son in three days and he'd take care of it. When the mother and son returned, she became curious and asked Ghandi why he'd made her wait three days. Ghandi replied, "Because three days ago I had not stopped eating sweets." |
Dude, you're just speaking gibberish. You aren't even reading what I am writing, or at the very least, not comprehending it. Your little slycho-analysis on my own life is quite riveting though, no matter how off base you are.
Also, I don't intend to be a therapist. I am too empathetic and would end up carrying the weight of other people's problems on my own shoulders. That would be far too stressful for me. Instead, I intend to focus on child psychology and education.
Way to ignore my point altogether and tell me wonderful little stories instead :) |
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| PivotTechno |
| quote: | Originally posted by Theresa
I am too empathetic and would end up carrying the weight of other people's problems on my own shoulders. |
Any problem that someone else has that resonates so strongly with you that you end up carrying it around yourself is simply a reflection of your own unresolved garbage.
Trust me on this one.
And kids (if you work directly with them) will see through your thin veneer much faster than any adult will. |
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| Theresa |
| quote: | Originally posted by PivotTechno
Any problem that someone else has that resonates so strongly with you that you end up carrying it around yourself is simply a reflection of your own unresolved garbage.
Trust me on this one.
And kids (if you work directly with them) will see through your thin veneer much faster than any adult will. |
Again, thanks for your slycho-analysis, but you're wrong.
I am an extremely empathetic person. I don't like to see or hear about other people's suffering because I genuinely feel for them. If someone came to me and was telling me about their problems, I would feel for them so deeply that I would not be able to effectively help them. I also have a tendency to want to help people as much as I can, so would feel an obligation to go beyond my call of duty to do so. This would amount to stress, of which, I do not need.
Also, kids love me. I have worked with kids for years, and have always had kids warm up to me almost instantly.
Your insisting that I have unresolved issues could be interpreted as projection on your part, but I will refrain from making my own slycho-analysis. |
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| Spam |
| quote: | Originally posted by Theresa
Read what he says in its entirety:
My observation is that all parents, even the worst parents, “did the best they could.” Yet this doesn’t let any parent off the hook. A child has the right to blame his parents for their (The parent's) inadequacies—because their (The same inadequacies, and as such, the parent's) inadequacies damaged him. Laying blame at the feet of perpetrators is a huge step in breaking the intergenerational cycle of trauma—and sets the stage for healing.(In other words, it helps a person realize why they've performed the damaging behaviour, and begin to overcome it)
As such, I interpret his meaning of "laying blame" as placing the responsibility for your inadequacies on someone else. |
I think you're misreading this quote... I've bolded an edit into it to note how *I* comprehend the quote you've posted. I think it's just as dangerous to believe you're 100% responsible for something that's not entirely your fault as it is to believe you're 100% blameless for something that's at least partly your fault.
| quote: | | This is not the same as "laying blame" on someone for doing whatever they did and therefore, hurting you, which thus made you choose to do what you did as a result. |
This right here is exactly what I read the passage you quoted to mean. So I don't know what, specifically, you have against that quote.
| quote: | | The one implies that you skip the personal choice (whether it be reactionary based on something ty or whatever), and the other acknowledges that you controlled what you did, but understand that it was because of a reaction. In other words, the one implies that you have no personal responsibility for your own actions, and the other does. |
Agreed. But I think you're still misreading the quote you've used. |
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| PivotTechno |
| quote: | Originally posted by Theresa
I don't like to see or hear about other people's suffering because I genuinely feel for them. |
And you're a psych major.
Un-ing-believable.
Ever ask yourself why you feel for them so much? Doesn't it seem strange to you that something that you view as a positive trait cripples you (sorry, "amounts to stress") to the point that it will ultimately limit your capacity as a therapist?
| quote: | Originally posted by Theresa
I also have a tendency to want to help people as much as I can, so would feel an obligation to go beyond my call of duty to do so. |
Replace "tendency to want" with "addiction" and "as much as I can" with "to the point of sacrificing my own health" and you're probably being a little more honest with yourself. Again, you'd do well to ask yourself why you have this particular "tendency to want", as it isn't exactly the healthiest trait to be carrying around.
| quote: | Originally posted by Theresa
Your insisting that I have unresolved issues could be interpreted as projection on your part, but I will refrain from making my own slycho-analysis. |
Trust sister, I could write a ing book. The only difference is only the degree of self-awareness. |
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| Theresa |
| quote: | Originally posted by Spam
I think you're misreading this quote... I've bolded an edit into it to note how *I* comprehend the quote you've posted. I think it's just as dangerous to believe you're 100% responsible for something that's not entirely your fault as it is to believe you're 100% blameless for something that's at least partly your fault.
This right here is exactly what I read the passage you quoted to mean. So I don't know what, specifically, you have against that quote.
Agreed. But I think you're still misreading the quote you've used. |
Hmmm, you may very well be right. It is possible that I am misreading it. I read it as:
| quote: | | My observation is that all parents, even the worst parents, “did the best they could.” Yet this doesn’t let any parent off the hook. A child has the right to blame his parents for their (The child's) inadequacies—because their (the parent's) inadequacies damaged him. Laying blame at the feet of perpetrators is a huge step in breaking the intergenerational cycle of trauma—and sets the stage for healing. |
Your interpretation of it however, would make it more acceptable and would thus make my argument entirely moot.
| quote: | Originally posted by PivotTechno
And you're a psych major.
Un-ing-believable.
Ever ask yourself why you feel for them so much? Doesn't it seem strange to you that something that you view as a positive trait cripples you (sorry, "amounts to stress") to the point that it will ultimately limit your capacity as a therapist?
Replace "tendency to want" with "addiction" and "as much as I can" with "to the point of sacrificing my own health" and you're probably being a little more honest with yourself. Again, you'd do well to ask yourself why you have this particular "tendency to want", as it isn't exactly the healthiest trait to be carrying around.
Trust sister, I could write a ing book. The only difference is only the degree of self-awareness. |
I wouldn't trust anything you say because 1. you think this Mackler guy is amazing, and 2. you have given absolutely no reason why anything you say holds any merit.
Also, your interpretation of what I am saying is wrong, and I think you're just stretching to find something to criticize me for because I don't like your slycho-analysis nor a person you seem to idolize.
I do not have an addiction to helping people... that assertion is beyond ridiculous. Also, to suggest that all stresses are "sacrificing health" is plain stupidity. We experience all kinds of stresses, not all of which are bad for the health. Furthermore, a tendency to want to help people is not an unhealthy trait... I would argue that it is actually quite commendable. To acknowledge that I have a capability to offer others help and have a desire to share my wealth or whatever I can to others is something I wish more people would have.
Plain and simple, I don't like listening to other peoples suffering and would rather be working with kids, whom of which are far more enjoyable company in my opinion.
Kindly re-direct your postulations on my mentality and personality elsewhere because you don't have an iota of understanding as to who I am as a person, and as such, have no authority to form any kind of opinions. Thanks :) |
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| Spam |
| quote: | Originally posted by Theresa
Hmmm, you may very well be right. It is possible that I am misreading it. I read it as:
Your interpretation of it however, would make it more acceptable and would thus make my argument entirely moot. |
I figured that was your interpretation, so wanted to take a moment to point out that it could be read another way.
That said, I still think the guy's a bit of a crackpot.
I can always look back at my life and point to specific instances or things that people did to me as a kid that triggered later behaviours, but at the end of the day, I'm no longer a child, and I have to take full responsibility for my current actions. Simply placing blame doesn't fix any problems, and I certainly don't think that it's a requirement for moving on. The key is taking personal responsibility for your current actions, no matter what the initial cause is, and taking any actions necessary to improve yourself. |
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| Theresa |
| quote: | Originally posted by Spam
I figured that was your interpretation, so wanted to take a moment to point out that it could be read another way.
That said, I still think the guy's a bit of a crackpot.
I can always look back at my life and point to specific instances or things that people did to me as a kid that triggered later behaviours, but at the end of the day, I'm no longer a child, and I have to take full responsibility for my current actions. Simply placing blame doesn't fix any problems, and I certainly don't think that it's a requirement for moving on. The key is taking personal responsibility for your current actions, no matter what the initial cause is, and taking any actions necessary to improve yourself. |
Exactly :) We're totally on the same page and this is exactly what I have been trying to say. |
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| PivotTechno |
Lol, well you guys had better get yourselves on over to Vancouver's Lower East Side and start spreadin' the good word to all the addicts that all they have to do is take the actions necessary to improve themselves!
Halle-ing-lujah! |
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