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need resume advice (pg. 4)
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| raveed |
| quote: | Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
I have a question for the guys here who have recruitment experience: when applying by email is it better to attach a covering letter along with the CV, or put the covering letter into the email body? I always think it's a bit awkward to write in the email "Please find attached my covering letter" which then says "Please find attached my CV". |
Emails body usually works but you may be required to include less text in an email body as opposed to an attachment. Sometimes, the job description explicitly states how they would prefer your cover letter - attachment or within the email body so you may need to look out for that. |
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| DJ Mikey Mike |
| Get a grip, no one is going to refuse you a job because you used a staple instead of a paper clip. They might refuse you one for being a gimp though. |
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| Fledz |
| quote: | Originally posted by Trance Nutter
resume and cv aren't exactly the same.
We generally use CV's as opposed to resume's as the US know it.
Resume (as I understand the US considers a resume to be) is more like your cover letter, which should be around the 1 page mark. But you are correct, your CV should be far in excess of 1 page. |
Apparently so because anyone who can fit their personal details, education, job experience, qualifications, awards/miscellaneous and possibly references on one page is using size 1 writing or a page the size of a house.
FYI, mine is 3 pages and my first full time job over the past 13 months alone takes up half a page. |
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| tachobg |
| quote: | Originally posted by Fledz
Apparently so because anyone who can fit their personal details, education, job experience, qualifications, awards/miscellaneous and possibly references on one page is using size 1 writing or a page the size of a house.
FYI, mine is 3 pages and my first full time job over the past 13 months alone takes up half a page. |
It seems like it depends on the industry and the mutual expectations between employer and applicant. Taking half a page to describe a single position might be accepted in some industries, or for some positions. But, for other positions, the employers just want to see summaries and they'll call you over for an interview if they want to know more. I could list half a dozen things for each of my *summer* internships, but instead I use one or two-lines summarizing what kind of stuff I did. Having worked on projects in various fields, chances are, if I go into more detail, most employers won't know what I'm talking about or won't care. I've designed my resume with the assumption that it'll be skimmed for maximum 30 seconds, at the end of which the employer will make up his/her mind about calling me over for an interview.
One of the most impressive people I know who lived a few doors down from me and recently graduated, has had about 6 internships or undergrad research projects, is a co-founder of a startup (currently well funded and growing), has three patents, and a dozen or so projects that he did mostly *in his free time* that have been reported on by wired, popular science, wall street journal, cnn, et al. His resume fits on one page.
Edit: then again, it's really his website and project portfolio that people will be looking at -- the resume is just a formality. For industries where it is difficult to have such a project portfolio, it seems like detailed resumes are key. |
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| Fledz |
Notice how I said the full time job is half a page? The rest like casual jobs and work experience are all a few lines like you said. Nobody cares a whole lot about that stuff.
I'm in pharmaceutical sales so most of the info is sales data. I need to be able to showcase my growth targets, market share, MAT growth and other important key performance indicators which recruiters want to and do look at.
Any university level full time job should give you about half a page of info to write up after you've worked there for more than 12 months. Then as your resume expands, you can start to cut down on info from old jobs. Your current and previous one should always be full, especially if related to the job you're applying for.
Yes, recruiters go through a lot of resumes but they do read critical info for specific roles, critical info which gets you the interview in the first place.
Regardless, there seems to be a miscommunication. You guys are apparently talking about a cover letter which in my part of the world isn't part of a resume at all. It's what you write up for every specific job to accompany your resume.
I write a specific one for each job because that way I can cover exactly what the company wants to hear and why I'm the best candidate for the job. Those would be 1/2 to a full page and that seems to be what you're all talking about.
ing Yanks, get your terminology right for once :mad:
:p |
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| gehzumteufel |
| quote: | Originally posted by Fledz
Regardless, there seems to be a miscommunication. You guys are apparently talking about a cover letter which in my part of the world isn't part of a resume at all. It's what you write up for every specific job to accompany your resume.
I write a specific one for each job because that way I can cover exactly what the company wants to hear and why I'm the best candidate for the job. Those would be 1/2 to a full page and that seems to be what you're all talking about.
ing Yanks, get your terminology right for once :mad:
:p |
No, the cover letter is different. That is a 1/2 page thing selling yourself before they read/look at your resume. :p |
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| Moral Hazard |
| quote: | Originally posted by Fledz
Regardless, there seems to be a miscommunication. You guys are apparently talking about a cover letter which in my part of the world isn't part of a resume at all.
ing Yanks, get your terminology right for once :mad:
:p |
The miscomunication actually seems to be between a CV and resume. Resumes are very brief (really, two pages maximum) and are the standard in North America. A CV is far more exhaustive and really only used for very technical or very senior positions here. I look at a lot of resumes and a fair number of CVs and I assure you that one to two pages is the norm... anything more and most employers stop reading (honestly, I don't give a damn about what seminars you've attended because any idiot can take a class). |
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| Moral Hazard |
| quote: | Originally posted by Fledz
FYI, mine is 3 pages and my first full time job over the past 13 months alone takes up half a page. |
See, right here I would throw your resume in the recycling. Effective communication is important in my industry; if it takes you half a page to communicate the essential tasks and accomplishments of a one year position then you're not what I'm looking for. |
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| gehzumteufel |
| quote: | Originally posted by Moral Hazard
See, right here I would throw your resume in the recycling. Effective communication is important in my industry; if it takes you half a page to communicate the essential tasks and accomplishments of a one year position then you're not what I'm looking for. |
You really instilled a bunch of things about resumes for me. I absolutely thank you for that. :)
Fledz: Moral is so spot on here. |
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| raveed |
| quote: | Originally posted by Moral Hazard
See, right here I would throw your resume in the recycling. Effective communication is important in my industry; if it takes you half a page to communicate the essential tasks and accomplishments of a one year position then you're not what I'm looking for. |
Exactly. I find it quite surprising that people are not aware about this basic rule and i find it hard to believe that it differs from industry to industry because when making my resume , i looked at resumes of 6 other friends of mine (all ivy league educated) with about 2-3 years work experience and each one of their resumes was 1 page.
No one will care much about what you did on your internships if you are applying for a mid- senior level position so we just put the names of the companies we worked for and focused on our responsibilities at our current job. I have a good friend who created 'resumend' - a resume reviewing application on facebook who also told me the same thing.
The reason for so much resume space being taken up is because people focus on every activity and not on results. No manager is going to care about the fact that you drafted and presented proposals or met with key people weekly if you do not state what results you acheived from it. Start focusing on that and you will be surprised at how you will realize that the 6 tasks you listed on your resume were actually conducted to acheive 1 result. |
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| Fledz |
| quote: | Originally posted by Moral Hazard
See, right here I would throw your resume in the recycling. Effective communication is important in my industry; if it takes you half a page to communicate the essential tasks and accomplishments of a one year position then you're not what I'm looking for. |
You would but are you in the pharmaceutical industry? That level of detail (half a page isn't much anyway) is exactly what gets me the interviews. Without it a CV/Resume is useless.
A core part of my company is healthcare recruitment so I know exactly how they work and what they look for.
For example if I took all that out and just left a line or two of generic rubbish, how does it differentiate me from other sales reps in any way? It doesn't. |
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| Moral Hazard |
| quote: | Originally posted by Fledz
You would but are you in the pharmaceutical industry? That level of detail (half a page isn't much anyway) is exactly what gets me the interviews. Without it a CV/Resume is useless.
A core part of my company is healthcare recruitment so I know exactly how they work and what they look for.
For example if I took all that out and just left a line or two of generic rubbish, how does it differentiate me from other sales reps in any way? It doesn't. |
I'm not in pharmaceuticals, so I can't really speak for that industry. If you're in sales; however, should you not focus on your results as opposed to your tasks? This isn't necessarally directed at you, as I've not seen your resume; however, I as an employer really don't care what you did and failed at but what you succeeded at. |
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