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Norway cuts antibiotics, successfully battles staph (pg. 5)
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| Lilith |
Way my mother always described and prescribed them was on the basis that once in a while for a very serious bacterial infection that was out of control they do well, however with repeated doses the body simply doesn't produce as many white blood cells because essentially it doesn't have to. Their job is being done by the antibiotic.
The bigger problem is that there isn't really a 'generic' white blood cell, so all the other ones that deal with allergy's, viral, fungal infections and so on, also get their production put on hold.
So, overall you end up weaker in all areas.
One thing of note is that for years doctors just prescribed them for everything on the chance that if you have a taxed system from say a viral infection, that you'd be at-risk of a secondary bacterial infection, which can happen, but not necessarily going to kill you either. BUT, the root cause of it all is people that didn't follow their prescription all the way through, they just decided that it would be far more fun to kill it with beer or something and the full dose didn't kill everything... evolution worked, the strong bugs survived and prospered. |
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| Fledz |
There's two points that need to be raised:
1. You can't just say "prescribe less drugs" because you can't compare an antibiotic to a lifetime medication like a statin or anti-hypertensive. There is definitely way too much prescribing in the world but it's more severe with antibiotics. A big issue is because of the patient. If you come see a doctor with a clear infection, the doctor has to give you something to cure it. If they don't and you die, they haven't done their job.
As has been raised, people need to look after themselves better and their immune systems will become stronger. Pills should be saved for when you need them, not every single time you feel slightly sick. Tbills is a perfect example of the lack of education and reliance on medicines.
2. Don't compare the US pharmaceutical industry to the rest of the world. Your market is a total cluster of epic proportions and it's the reason why the global industry keeps North American sales figures separate from everywhere else. For the love of everything that is holy, you still advertise prescription meds on TV, direct to the consumer! :wtf:
Actually there's something else too. We're raising kids the wrong way. Keeping them away from dirt and wrapping them in cotton wool actually weakens their immune system. By the time they become adults, their body is totally incapable of putting up an effective resistance to even the most common of pathogens. In 20 years time we'll have a generation of 20 year olds who will get struck down with something every second week because their parents chose to effectively sterilise their lives as toddlers.
People need to learn when a drug is appropriate and when it isn't. Out of every single species on this entire planet, we have the strongest immune system. We just need to develop it more.
Since I've been working as a pharm rep since early 2009, I practically haven't gotten sick. I'm around sick people 5 days a week and I simply just can't catch anything. It's because my immune system has become strong from dealing with so much sickness. If it gets to a point where I do get really sick, then I go in for an antibiotic. Simple really and the way it should be.
The common cold of course doesn't count because I believe there's over 200 thousand strains so there's no hope in hell of developing a resistance or vaccine (though there has been some recent genetic research I believe it was on possibly making us resistant). |
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| Lilith |
| quote: | Originally posted by Fledz
Actually there's something else too. We're raising kids the wrong way. Keeping them away from dirt and wrapping them in cotton wool actually weakens their immune system. |
Sort of works similarly as a vaccination does, just over a long time and non-specific. Fairly sure being raised in the country and running around as a complete grot with dirt and animals contributed in its own way to my comparatively good health. Think I've been sick twice in the last 10 years with a cold for a week or two but that's it. |
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| Fledz |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lilith
Sort of works similarly as a vaccination does, just over a long time and non-specific. Fairly sure being raised in the country and running around as a complete grot with dirt and animals contributed in its own way to my comparatively good health. Think I've been sick twice in the last 10 years with a cold for a week or two but that's it. |
Yes, it's been proven that to develop resistances to the most common pathogens, toddlers MUST be exposed to them at a very early age. |
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| tubularbills |
| quote: | Originally posted by Fledz
Tbills is a perfect example of the lack of education and reliance on medicines. . |
jesus christ when did i say that i took antibiotics for feeling "slightly" sick.
i was talking about having antibiotics prescribed to me when i had infectious and communicable diseases. i wasn't talking about "omg i have the sniffles, give me penicillin!!!" i was talking about having an actual sinus and/or throat infection that was cured by use of Cipro and/or other forms of penicillin.
i'll admit i'm not a medical scientist, and i don't know everything there is to know about the medicial field of pharmacuticals. but you don't either so don't talk like your don't stink:whip: :whip:
:tongue2 |
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| SYSTEM-J |
| Those things are being slightly sick. |
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| tubularbills |
| quote: | Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
Those things are being slightly sick. |
no, being slightly sick is having some sniffles, maybe a light sore throat. no fever.
once you start having fevers, chills, major throat pain, inflammation of the tonsils, epigloddis (sp?), throat glands, and other infectious disease symptoms, that's not slightly sick. |
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| NeoPhono |
There are many reasons why antibiotics continue to be used in large amounts in the US, although that is gradually starting to change.
One reason is that patients expect something from an office visit when they're sick. Since we pay out of pocket for our health care, patients expect something for their "investment," and in many cases, it comes in the form of a pill. It's like the anecdotal story given about ibuprofen stated above. The poster was unsatisfied that he was given a pill, but at the same time, it looked as if he was expected something "more" out of the visit. Was it more expensive testing or imaging? What would have satisfied him and justified his visit? The mere fact he was given a prescription for an over-the-counter drug speaks volumes as to the real severity of the injury. Would he have been happy with simply being told he needed rest and time to heal?
The next and largest reason why antibiotics are used in hospitals to such a high degree is the government. Hospitals get absolutely destroyed when it comes to reimbursement if a patient develops an infection either while in the hospital, or immediately thereafter, needing re-admission. It's much cheaper to "over-treat" with antibiotics then to have to foot the entire bill for a hospital stay if a patient gets pneumonia or a urinary tract infection.
The last, and most rapidly changing factor, is tradition. It's true that antibiotics used to be dispensed at the slightest sign of infection or discomfort. This was a hold-over from before evidence based medicine became such a huge part of modern medical practice. It takes time for the "old" doctors to either retire or accept more modern practices. Younger primary care doctors are doing a much better job of limiting antibiotic use and it'll continue to improve.
In short, Norway has it "easy" in that if a decision is made limit antibiotic use there is a mandate set for prescribing practices, there is less fear of a change in reimbursement for hospitals and patients have less room to complain. |
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| gehzumteufel |
| quote: | Originally posted by NeoPhono
One reason is that patients expect something from an office visit when they're sick. Since we pay out of pocket for our health care, patients expect something for their "investment," and in many cases, it comes in the form of a pill. It's like the anecdotal story given about ibuprofen stated above. The poster was unsatisfied that he was given a pill, but at the same time, it looked as if he was expected something "more" out of the visit. Was it more expensive testing or imaging? What would have satisfied him and justified his visit? The mere fact he was given a prescription for an over-the-counter drug speaks volumes as to the real severity of the injury. Would he have been happy with simply being told he needed rest and time to heal? |
It would have been okay with me, if it was the first time it had happened. I told the doctor that it has gone away previously and come back. Multiple times. There is more to the story, but of course, you assumed that there wasn't. I didn't see the need to detail it really. |
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| NeoPhono |
| quote: | Originally posted by gehzumteufel
It would have been okay with me, if it was the first time it had happened. I told the doctor that it has gone away previously and come back. Multiple times. There is more to the story, but of course, you assumed that there wasn't. I didn't see the need to detail it really. |
What's the rest of the history? It sounds like recurrent popliteus or Achilles tendinitis/tenosynovitis, probably from overuse. Treatment is rest and high-dose NSAIDs (which were prescribed). You could have a steroid injection, but assuming you're fairly young and you don't want your tendon to rupture someday, it's definitely not a first option, especially if it wasn't bad enough that you could still walk out of the office. |
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| gehzumteufel |
| quote: | Originally posted by NeoPhono
What's the rest of the history? It sounds like recurrent popliteus or Achilles tendinitis/tenosynovitis, probably from overuse. Treatment is rest and high-dose NSAIDs (which were prescribed). You could have a steroid injection, but assuming you're fairly young and you don't want your tendon to rupture someday, it's definitely not a first option, especially if it wasn't bad enough that you could still walk out of the office. |
It never seemed to be of any constant what would cause it to come and go. I could be really active for months, and it just comes up and doesn't go away for months. Other times, I would be not active at all, and it would become really sore. It appeared to have no correlation with how active I was. I haven't had a problem for a good few years now, but I haven't really been very active anymore either. |
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| NeoPhono |
| quote: | Originally posted by gehzumteufel
It never seemed to be of any constant what would cause it to come and go. I could be really active for months, and it just comes up and doesn't go away for months. Other times, I would be not active at all, and it would become really sore. It appeared to have no correlation with how active I was. I haven't had a problem for a good few years now, but I haven't really been very active anymore either. |
Re-reading my post this morning, I see that I came across as an ass. I wasn't trying to dismiss your pain, but I know it looks as if I was. I hope you find a doctor that treats you appropriately and to your liking. Again, sorry to minimize what you're going through. |
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