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Big Picture: Afghanistan, July, 2010 (pg. 3)
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| Joss Weatherby |
| quote: | Originally posted by The17sss
1) When did you become part of the 99th percentile?
2) Your frequent dreamy comments of a totalitarian State being what's best for the people, considering every time that's been tried throughout history its failed, is scary. |
Believe me, I am in the 99.99th percentile.
China hasn't failed yet. They are getting it right, people with economic stability as well as things like education and national health care will have little to revolt against. As long as they are taken care of they will be happy. What is there to be mad about when you can buy anything you want and don't have to worry about getting sick? What is freedom if you can't afford it?
The only reason you support anyone being able to do as they are told with out government intervention is so that the private sector can exploit them.
Since government is supposed to be for the PEOPLE this would generally negatively affect the private sector. People being allowed to make bad choices (that ultimately harm the greater society) is one of the fundamental tenets of neo-conservative and libertarian movements. |
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| Joss Weatherby |
| Also if you look at humanity as a whole, the idea of democracy is very, very young. I would say that totalitarian types of governance have worked amazingly well since we all still seem to be here. Only recently has democracy and republicanism come into play. Monarchies and feudal societies before that were totalitarian and existed for thousands of years and in almost every society on the planet. |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by Joss Weatherby
Believe me, I am in the 99.99th percentile.
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For what? |
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| Joss Weatherby |
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
For what? |
Being ing awesome. |
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| The17sss |
| quote: | Originally posted by Joss Weatherby
Believe me, I am in the 99.99th percentile. |
I'm sorry. I don't believe you. Why aren't you at MIT right now?
| quote: | | China hasn't failed yet. They are getting it right, people with economic stability as well as things like education and national health care will have little to revolt against. |
:stongue: :stongue: :stongue:
Holy . |
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| Joss Weatherby |
| quote: | Originally posted by The17sss
I'm sorry. I don't believe you. Why aren't you at MIT right now?
:stongue: :stongue: :stongue:
Holy . |
Where am I wrong? When was the last time that a economically stable and prosperous society said "oh well this isnt right, lets ditch everything and revolt!"? |
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| The17sss |
| quote: | Originally posted by Joss Weatherby
Also if you look at humanity as a whole, the idea of democracy is very, very young. I would say that totalitarian types of governance have worked amazingly well since we all still seem to be here. Only recently has democracy and republicanism come into play. Monarchies and feudal societies before that were totalitarian and existed for thousands of years and in almost every society on the planet. |
Yes the history of the world is totalitarianism and dictatorial rule. And they have all failed. Name one totalitarian, communist/marxist, etc. government that has been a success. Name a single one where the peoples' standard of living increased and oppression decreased. Funny that those in charge of such regimes live in luxury and financial excess, and do not abide by the laws in which they subject their people. That is what makes democracy and representative republicanism much different and BETTER. How else do you explain the U.S. becoming the most prosperous nation in the history of the world in such a short time? It sure as isn't because we were run like those "amazing" totalitarian regimes you covet so much. |
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| Joss Weatherby |
| quote: | Originally posted by The17sss
Yes the history of the world is totalitarianism and dictatorial rule. And they have all failed. Name one totalitarian, communist/marxist, etc. government that has been a success. Name a single one where the peoples' standard of living increased and oppression decreased. Funny that those in charge of such regimes live in luxury and financial excess, and do not abide by the laws in which they subject their people. That is what makes democracy and representative republicanism much different and BETTER. How else do you explain the U.S. becoming the most prosperous nation in the history of the world in such a short time? It sure as isn't because we were run like those "amazing" totalitarian regimes you covet so much. |
I am not saying that people shouldn't be allowed to become what they want, but they shouldn't be able to do it on the backs of people who are too stupid to defend themselves.
Yes the US is prosperous, but look at the standard of living compared to countries were there is even a marginal degree more governmental control... we are compared to most countries in Europe and Japan as well. Our standard of living is by and away the most expensive for what we get, which is very little in terms of social services and benefits.
China has a totalitarian capitalist system that looks like its working out really well. They control everything from the top down, make sure the wealth is spread out equally enough that its bringing most areas out of poverty, and yet there are still people that are becoming rich. Yea its not even close to perfect and the US is still way better off, but give the 20-30 years and guess where they will be? More than likely their standard of living will be much higher and their cost of living much cheaper. They already have a "middle class" larger than the entire population of the US! |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by Joss Weatherby
China has a totalitarian capitalist system that looks like its working out really well. They control everything from the top down, make sure the wealth is spread out equally enough that its bringing most areas out of poverty, and yet there are still people that are becoming rich. Yea its not even close to perfect and the US is still way better off, but give the 20-30 years and guess where they will be? More than likely their standard of living will be much higher and their cost of living much cheaper. |
this has happened in spite of the communist party, not because of it. |
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| enydo |
yes.
oh yes, here we go. |
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| Comrade Stalin |
| quote: | Originally posted by The17sss
Yes the history of the world is totalitarianism and dictatorial rule. And they have all failed. Name one totalitarian, communist/marxist, etc. government that has been a success.
Every government that has ever existed has failed. The Roman Empire is our only precedent in regard to how long a state can last. The American state will fail one day too.
[quote]Name a single one where the peoples' standard of living increased |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josip_Broz_Tito
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyrus_the_Great
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlemagne
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_the_great
Standard of living and authoritarian government may be correlated, but certainly don't exhibit a cause and effect relationship. There are plenty of democratic nations on earth which are still poor as . So while I give democracy its props, it's still only a mediocre alternative to authoritarianism. When the Chinese view their government substantially more favorable than American view theirs, then the American Federalist system has some problems doesn't it?
| quote: | | That is what makes democracy and representative republicanism much different and BETTER. How else do you explain the U.S. becoming the most prosperous nation in the history of the world in such a short time? It sure as isn't because we were run like those "amazing" totalitarian regimes you covet so much. |
America had a vast supply of raw materials, able to convert into finished goods, and become the number 1 exporter in the world, given the destruction of foreign competitors through two world wars. Never mind the brain drain the resulted. American got Einstein, that's got to mean something. |
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| Joss Weatherby |
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
this has happened in spite of the communist party, not because of it. |
Nothing has happened in spite of the communist party in China... They laid this path with conscious decision.
Look at the death of the student democracy movements. While initially they were put down with violence, increased wealth and opportunity for that generation smothered the momentum they had. Why revolt against the hand that feeds you? Its very simple. Money = happy, and freedom is in the eye of the beholder. If they are free to work at a job they enjoy (eventually) and to go and spend money on TVs and cellphones and trips to the beach then what do they care about who is the head of their country? They have a unified social and moral agenda (a pretty lax one, they are not up tight decedents from puritan pukes like most of us) and really don't give a about anything besides being content with what they have. |
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