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Big Picture: Afghanistan, July, 2010 (pg. 4)
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| The17sss |
| quote: | Originally posted by Joss Weatherby
I am not saying that people shouldn't be allowed to become what they want, but they shouldn't be able to do it on the backs of people who are too stupid to defend themselves.
Yes the US is prosperous, but look at the standard of living compared to countries were there is even a marginal degree more governmental control... we are compared to most countries in Europe and Japan as well. Our standard of living is by and away the most expensive for what we get, which is very little in terms of social services and benefits. |
I'm not so sure about that... I've been throughout Europe and their plumbing sucks, their service is like molasses compared to here, and I won't even get into the building code violations. And, Italy, Spain, Switzerland, and France were all more ing expensive than here. Where are you getting this picture that Europe is so much better? They've been able to piggyback on our defense spending... but look what's happening now. The time of laid-back leisure is over. Decades of social-democracy and increasing entitlement programs are coming home to roost as their economies are falling apart. Greece, Spain, Portugal, Ireland... the dominoes are about to fall man. And why? Because of social programs and entitlements for everything under the sun. We always seem to be 10 years or so behind Europe in what they're doing, yet we never learn from their follies.
| quote: | | China has a totalitarian capitalist system that looks like its working out really well. They control everything from the top down, make sure the wealth is spread out equally enough that its bringing most areas out of poverty, and yet there are still people that are becoming rich. Yea its not even close to perfect and the US is still way better off, but give the 20-30 years and guess where they will be? More than likely their standard of living will be much higher and their cost of living much cheaper. They already have a "middle class" larger than the entire population of the US! |
Key phrase from this paragraph: it "looks" like it's working out really well. Command and control from the top down never works in the long run man... except for the same 10,000 or so who are in that inner circle who make all the money. The cities there are being flooded with people trying to get out of the countryside... there's not enough infrastructure, jobs, places to live, etc. to support it and it's becoming a major issue. Oppression is horrible, and there is more pollution output from 3 plants in China than all of the U.S. combined to name a couple of instances. You should read this:
http://www.chinahush.com/2009/10/21...ution-in-china/
http://www.chinahush.com/2009/12/18...f-growing-food/
http://www.chinahush.com/2009/11/27...re-so-annoying/ |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by Joss Weatherby
Nothing has happened in spite of the communist party in China... They laid this path with conscious decision.
Look at the death of the student democracy movements. While initially they were put down with violence, increased wealth and opportunity for that generation smothered the momentum they had. Why revolt against the hand that feeds you? Its very simple. Money = happy, and freedom is in the eye of the beholder. If they are free to work at a job they enjoy (eventually) and to go and spend money on TVs and cellphones and trips to the beach then what do they care about who is the head of their country? They have a unified social and moral agenda (a pretty lax one, they are not up tight decedents from puritan pukes like most of us) and really don't give a about anything besides being content with what they have. |
that 99th percentile you mentioned- does it refer to the people who can fit their head up their own arse? |
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| The17sss |
| quote: | Originally posted by Comrade Stalin
So while I give democracy its props, it's still only a mediocre alternative to authoritarianism. When the Chinese view their government substantially more favorable than American view theirs, then the American Federalist system has some problems doesn't it? |
The less government involvement, the better (no, that doesn't mean I want a country without government). I think we view our government less favorably because we actually have access to information that isn't controlled by the State. As our politicians are increasingly making promises they don't keep, we are seeing it and now Americans are more disgusted with government and politicians than ever. In China, the State controls the media. , look at North Korea- their people think they have the best government in the world! |
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| Joss Weatherby |
| quote: | Originally posted by The17sss
I'm not so sure about that... I've been throughout Europe and their plumbing sucks, their service is like molasses compared to here, and I won't even get into the building code violations. And, Italy, Spain, Switzerland, and France were all more ing expensive than here. Where are you getting this picture that Europe is so much better? They've been able to piggyback on our defense spending... but look what's happening now. The time of laid-back leisure is over. Decades of social-democracy and increasing entitlement programs are coming home to roost as their economies are falling apart. Greece, Spain, Portugal, Ireland... the dominoes are about to fall man. And why? Because of social programs and entitlements for everything under the sun. We always seem to be 10 years or so behind Europe in what they're doing, yet we never learn from their follies. |
Yes, but they also have higher incomes to reflect that higher cost. Normalized it is cheaper for the amount of services that they receive.
Even if they collapse they will still be in a better position to rebuild themselves than the US is.
| quote: | Originally posted by The17sss
Key phrase from this paragraph: it "looks" like it's working out really well. Command and control from the top down never works in the long run man... except for the same 10,000 or so who are in that inner circle who make all the money. The cities there are being flooded with people trying to get out of the countryside... there's not enough infrastructure, jobs, places to live, etc. to support it and it's becoming a major issue. Oppression is horrible, and there is more pollution output from 3 plants in China than all of the U.S. combined to name a couple of instances. You should read this:
http://www.chinahush.com/2009/10/21...ution-in-china/
http://www.chinahush.com/2009/12/18...f-growing-food/
http://www.chinahush.com/2009/11/27...re-so-annoying/ |
Oppression is horrible to us, they do not see it the same way. They have lived for thousands of years under either imperial or totalitarian rule, so its not all that different.
Yes pollution is bad there, but its bad here too, neither of us want to put any caps on it either, so thats really a moot point. Plus they are rapidly developing. If you expanded the amount of pollution we generated during the industrial revolution and the decades following when we made our great leaps forward to match the population of China we would have been just as bad I suppose, so its really not that incredible. We are just lucky India isn't right there besides them yet. They will be soon though (and wow they are democracy too, but again, Asians, more unified ideals, and not as bat crazy, and Indians are pretty bat crazy). |
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| Joss Weatherby |
| quote: | Originally posted by The17sss
The less government involvement, the better (no, that doesn't mean I want a country without government). I think we view our government less favorably because we actually have access to information that isn't controlled by the State. As our politicians are increasingly making promises they don't keep, we are seeing it and now Americans are more disgusted with government and politicians than ever. In China, the State controls the media. , look at North Korea- their people think they have the best government in the world! |
Yea but in China they are also not starving to death anymore and are rapidly gaining a standard of living comparable to us, and probably will soon better ours. So even if they knew "what we know" about their government I am sure they wouldn't care.
If the US could afford to pay for everyones medical care and did it, and also provide for police, fire, and other essential services would you care who was in charge or what they did? |
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| Magadansky |
| Why don't you go live in China or under some other totalitarian regime if you think its so much better? |
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| The17sss |
| quote: | Originally posted by Magadansky
Why don't you go live in China or under some other totalitarian regime if you think its so much better? |
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| Joss Weatherby |
| quote: | Originally posted by Magadansky
Why don't you go live in China or under some other totalitarian regime if you think its so much better? |
Not a big fan of asian women, and even if I was there isn't enough of them there... :p
That actually leads me to a point though.
The main thing china has to fear is the nearly 150 million Chinese men who will physically be unable to find a mate in the near future. That is a lot of people. Sexual frustration leading to revolt? Hmmm... |
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| igottaknow |
| quote: | Originally posted by Joss Weatherby
That actually leads me to a point though.
The main thing china has to fear is the nearly 150 million Chinese men who will physically be unable to find a mate in the near future. That is a lot of people. Sexual frustration leading to revolt? Hmmm... |
You're 20 year old virgin living in your aunt's basement and you haven't done anything revolutionary.  |
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| Chimney |
| What to expect when you enter other people's country? |
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| Comrade Stalin |
| quote: | Originally posted by The17sss
The less government involvement, the better (no, that doesn't mean I want a country without government). I think we view our government less favorably because we actually have access to information that isn't controlled by the State. As our politicians are increasingly making promises they don't keep, we are seeing it and now Americans are more disgusted with government and politicians than ever. In China, the State controls the media. , look at North Korea- their people think they have the best government in the world! |
I think it has far more to do with actual results of the government's policies than state-controlled media making everything sounds great. 500 million people being lifted out of poverty in 23 years is an unprecedented success no matter what country you live in.
China’s sustained growth fueled historically unprecedented poverty reduction. The World Bank uses a poverty line based on household real consumption (including consumption of own-produced crops and other goods), set at $1 per day measured at Purchasing Power Parity. In most low-income countries this amount is sufficient to guarantee each person about 2000 calories of nutrition per day, plus other basic necessities. In 2007, this line corresponds to about 900 RMB per year. Based on household surveys, the poverty rate in China in 1981 was 64% of the population. This rate declined to 10% in 2004, indicating that about 500 million people have climbed out of poverty during this period.
Ravallion, Martin, and Shaohua Chen, 2005. China’s (Uneven) Progress Against Poverty. Journal of Development Economics. |
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| Joss Weatherby |
| quote: | Originally posted by igottaknow
You're 20 year old virgin living in your aunt's basement and you haven't done anything revolutionary. |
You are a 40 year old that dresses like a 20 year old... and I am pretty sure if you averaged it out at your age you are getting pretty close to 0 . |
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