...I wish people would stop telling others that they spin on "4 decks" when using software like Traktor. When you're playing 4 tracks that are already all synched up with each other, you're doing just that - playing 4 tracks.
This is what playing on 4 decks looks like:
and like so...
/Friday rant
:D
IL Duce
kind of funny that serato is ok.
Mad for Brad
maybe if the dj played proper music, he wouldn't have to combine 4 records. Call me crazy but I think these kind of djs are just idiots trying to show off. A monkey can beatmatch. What djs should be focusing on is how to build sets , how to raise and lower tension, understand the affect of key relationships, using motives thru out a set. This sort of fancy mixing was impressive 15 years ago. It is just stupid these days.
DJ RANN
quote:
Originally posted by Mad for Brad
maybe if the dj played proper music, he wouldn't have to combine 4 records. Call me crazy but I think these kind of djs are just idiots trying to show off. A monkey can beatmatch. What djs should be focusing on is how to build sets , how to raise and lower tension, understand the affect of key relationships, using motives thru out a set. This sort of fancy mixing was impressive 15 years ago. It is just stupid these days.
So true, but there are a select few who make multiple decks work....
...and why is "fancy" mixing (I take it you're referring his fader work) stupid, in your estimation? Basic beatmatching might be within the grasp of most, but it takes a certain level of talent to be able to keep 3 or 4 turntables locked up for an extended period of time while also doing everything else you've described as being necessary for a good set.
In the end, if it was as easy as you say it is, then everyone would have been spinning on multiple decks long before the advent of software such as Traktor, and they wouldn't have felt the need to include a beat-synching function in the program.
Re. Mills - always been hit-and-miss on three, which given the high regard in which he tends to be held, should show just how difficult a task keeping multiple decks locked up actually is.
Ben Sims, on the other hand:
3-decks with a turntablist background (just like Mills, but tighter and considerably more consistent)? Yes please.
Stu Cox
quote:
Originally posted by PivotTechno
Timely article...
However, once you've learnt to beatmatch by ear, I think it's totally up to the DJ whether they do it when they play out or not.
The technology's there to loop at the touch of a button, rather than beat juggling (how you loop on vinyl) and DJs very rarely get flamed for that - why should using any other technology be any different?
But similarly, I think it's to every DJ's benefit if they have a go at doing these kinds of techniques: simple beat juggling, scratching, etc - even if you never do it live, it'll really help your understanding of how the sound works, timing and how rhythms fit together.
What I would say is that DJs who use syncing technology should bear the following in mind:
Don't rely on it - as the article says, the technology can fail you, so make sure you have a back-up plan and if it does go wrong, you've got the power to take manual control.
Perfect syncing isn't always best - slightly rougher mixes can make your set feel more live and can inject more energy, if done at the right times. Most syncing software allows you to move the syncing grid slightly... you can use this to 'roughen up' a mix a bit. Or just do a mix manually every now and again.
Don't let it limit you creatively - syncing with some software will stop you from being able to do simple creative things like tapping out a rhythm using the 'cue' button, because it will try and sync every hit to the beat.
Don't let it limit you in track selection - a lot of people get around point 1 by pre-syncing and checking all of their tracks so they know they're right, but that then means they'll be scared to play a track they haven't checked... that might be the perfect tune to drop and his/her reliance on the technology stops them from playing it!
In answer to the OP, yeah it's just semantics and tbh they're not wrong (Traktor calls its players 'decks')... but if someone says that, just ask them if they can beatmatch on 4 decks ;)
DJ RANN
Yuck, this is such a disgusting topic and it makes me sad that DJ'ing has come to this.
I mean it was bad enough when every ****** jumped on the DJ thing wanting to be an overpaid superstar DJ, but now you don't even need to have technical ability to cover one of the most basic skills of DJ'ing.
I have friends who make DJ mixes on computers and they sound all synced, but when they come over and it's just CD's and Vinyl at my place, they are just so lost - they might as well not even touch the kit.
I don't think it's acceptable at all that a DJ uses a snyc button at all, and I'll vote with my feet by walking out of that club and never going to see that DJ again.
It's not about DJ elitism - I pay to see a DJ perform by playing good music and using their skill on a multitude of levels from building an atmosphere to reading the crowd to superb mixing skills and they are al proporitantely linked to me.
I HATE (with a passion) laptop sets anyway as amongst other things it destroys the connection with the crowd and the sync button is just a further degradation of DJ skill and another reason why laptops sets have no place apart from for weddings / mobile jocks.
Think about it: After the sync button becomes acceptable, what next? How about software that analyses your entire crate for BPM and content and just plays the tracks for you as it thinks best?
I'm honestly quite surprised Stu that you think it's even slightly acceptable.
IL Duce
i'm not a fan of the sync button either, but if you walk out of a club because a dj is playing on a laptop....you are there for the wrong reasons/bitter.
i don't mean this to flame either, but this type of nostalgic prejudice is the equivalent to your parents and their parents before them yelling at you to "turn the noise down.".
I'd rather hear (in bold because a dj is meant to be heard and not seen, and if you don't see them on a laptop you might just not know he was using one) a laptop set than a vinyl set with nothing but train wrecks. I'm there to dance to good music, not to thumb my nose at the medium in which it is being delivered.
i say of this as someone who plays at least 50% records still to this day (albeit with serato).
i will agree with the fact that all djs should learn to beatmatch by ear, because it will make you a better dj with a much better sense of timing/ability to improvise on the fly.
jdat
I'm not sure what this thread is about? hate for the laziness the technology can produce?
how many djs out there claim to play 4 decks? not many as far as I can tell(Chris Liebing and Speedy J tag team sets etc)
I will do the occasional 4 deck on traktor but only when it's called for and when I'm willing to "work it" otherwise it's a mess and all over the place.
Back in the turntable days I have done 3 deck sets but never more because of material constraints.
I don't buy the argument that one shouldn't use sync. Sure djing is easy and lazy to a certain extent as others have put it, but if you can focus on something else than just that, being a beatmatching monkey, it opens yourself for other things in the creative arena(better flowing sets, transitions etc).
One could always argue that this could/should have been the focus all along, and yes many djs didn't wait for the new technology to come and luckily or else there wouldn't have been many extraordinary djs up until now.
Traktor like any tool is what you make of it.
You can go much farther than classical djing with it yet very few do but the software ain't to blame for that one single bit.
also coming back to your wording of playing 4 tracks instead of 4 decks reminds me of the arrogance/snob attitude towards mp3. It's just a tool with it's ups and downs pros and cons like everything.
this track came out earlier this year and the guy saying "house music is back, yada yada yada, those playing digital should call themselves mp3js, it don't make no sense" it makes me shake my head.
Between the desire for honest music with the so called old school vibe(which has been repeated in a billion different tracks) and the attitude against change(which I agree is not always for the better).
quote:
Originally posted by nortek
if it sounds good it is good imo, laptop and sync or not. i witnessed a really cool live act some weeks ago by norwegians ROBOMATIC AND THE TRONIX (Ost&Kjex+Trulz&Robin for those who are interested)
it's indeed all about the end result.
I've loved Ost&Kjex productions for a while and the new album flows just great.
IL Duce
liebing is all dvs now....speedy j is more known for his live PA.
IL Duce
wat?
"the efx from_one track" = just shut up please and epic lol.
DJ RANN
quote:
Originally posted by IL Duce
i'm not a fan of the sync button either, but if you walk out of a club because a dj is playing on a laptop....you are there for the wrong reasons/bitter.
i don't mean this to flame either, but this type of nostalgic prejudice is the equivalent to your parents and their parents before them yelling at you to "turn the noise down.".
I'd rather hear (in bold because a dj is meant to be heard and not seen, and if you don't see them on a laptop you might just not know he was using one) a laptop set than a vinyl set with nothing but train wrecks. I'm there to dance to good music, not to thumb my nose at the medium in which it is being delivered.
i say of this as someone who plays at least 50% records still to this day (albeit with serato).
i will agree with the fact that all djs should learn to beatmatch by ear, because it will make you a better dj with a much better sense of timing/ability to improvise on the fly.
My assertions aren't based in some sort of nostalgic longing for times gone by at all.
Anyone who knows me or has been involved in any one of the dozen or so threads on here about this subject knows my views come from qualitative and quantitative experiences directly relating to the music, not just as a DJ myself but as a punter.
I was going to post the quotes from those others threads in my post above but refrained as it's been done too many times.
Simply put, something is tangibly lost when a dj plays on laptop - it's the tactile relationship and the psycolological effect it has on the performance of a DJ, which in turn related to the music.
I've given numerous examples, in some cases even of the same DJ over e small period of time, of both their musical and physical performance suffering from the inclusion of a laptop. If I had to pin it down to one thing (and it's actually more complicated than just that), it's a DJ having to interact with a screen, that breaks their connection with the crowd and the music. The action of mixing becomes concious rather than a subconcious reflex.
In general CD or vinyl sets have been superior to laptop sets all things considered, IMO.
Now that doesn't mean someone can't have a good laptop set, and conversely, I have seen CD/vinyl sets that absolutely sucked and had no performance aspect at all (such as Miguel Migs) - I have just found that the vast majority laptop sets pale in comparison to "normal" dj sets.
These statement particularly seem to plame bait laptop DJ's who just handle these comments, but I simply don't give a .
I have NEVER seen an amazing laptop set in any genre of EDM, and a lot of them were blind analysis, as I couldn't even see what the DJ was using, only when I went to find out why the performance was so lacklustre.
And as mentioned, I have seen the same major name DJ perform 4 times over a few months period - two were laptop sets and two weren't. Guess which ones not just sucked in my opinion, but also in the overall consensus on here and other forums?
Anyway, I'm not going to get in a tussle over this. You can keep your laptop sets, and maybe walking out of a club is an exaggeration but not far from the truth.
And btw, livesets are not the same thing as DJ sets. Livesets in front of a computer are different IMO as there is usually a collaborative aspect and so many more things going on technically that it's really a neceessity to use a computer, which in most cases are better suited anyway.
You don't need a laptop to give a great DJ performance, it just makes it easier and gives you a false impression that you suck less at it.
