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fao: pkc (pg. 5)
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| Lilith |
| Quake was important in a number of areas which the consoles never even came close to touching, firstly- it was probably 'the' game that started competitive computer gaming against other people in deathmatch scenarios. Secondly, the private modifications of the game started a revolution in gaming, team deathmatch, rocket arena, capture the flag, team fortress etc went on and eventually spread to other platforms like Halflife (Counterstrike). No one made anything like that which was popular for console ports at the time. |
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| Halcyon+On+On |
Internet connectivity had a little something to do with that. :p
I remember playing Doom 2 in deathmatches over the net. That was actually the first place I'd heard the term. |
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| couch-potato |
It's like /v/ but with intelligence.
And they're actually talking about video games. |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On
Internet connectivity had a little something to do with that. :p
I remember playing Doom 2 in deathmatches over the net. That was actually the first place I'd heard the term. |
Doom 2, DM8. The one that was a big square and had all the spiders in it. that’s something I miss from the doom days, you could death match in an arena with re-spawning monsters. I’d like to see that make a comeback. |
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| SYSTEM-J |
| quote: | Originally posted by shaw
that helps level the cross-platform playing field, so to speak, but certainly doesn't make them equal. |
If anything, aiming in Halo is much easier than in competitive PC titles. If you find it harder, then you simply haven't put in enough time with the control system.
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
You make a fair point. But, since the title came out the previous year, I am still going to compare it to HL given that GE’s influence on HL would be negligible unless you’re alleging that valve re-wrote the game mid-stream. Again, I am not doubting its quality, just that the MP did not light me on fire. |
Valve did remake the game halfway through. Famously. It was originally scheduled for a similar release date to Quake II, but Valve weren't happy with it and spent an extra year on it. That was the beginning of "Valve time".
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anyway, I would hardly call the dual-weapon inventory notable at all. sure, it made you choose which weapons you take on your adventure, but in the thick of it all it really meant was that you were forced to go grab another weapon if your ammo ran out. The health/shield system I agree made the game play differently, and this was a net loss to FPS everywhere. All you need to do is look at the ness of health-recovery systems in just about any title released these days. sure, it was revolutionary, but not in a positive fashion. Melee existed from the times of wolfenstein (possibly before) and was a big part of Q3 so not sure what you’re referring to here. |
I'm sorry man, but you simply do not understand the game you are talking about (and dismissing). In terms of multi-player weapon balance the dual weapon inventory is absolutely critical to Halo. It's completely central. Melee in previous FPS games had been like grenades in previous FPS games - it was a unique weapon on the inventory. What I'm talking about is having the melee on a separate button, as with the grenades, so you can use both of them without switching weapon. That changes the gameplay massively. Massively. It's a new dimension to the options you have available at any point in combat. If you don't understand that, you simply do not understand Halo.
I'm not actually a massive fan of Halo's single-player in terms of overall design. Level design, enemies and so on are fairly average. The appeal of that side of the game is in the unique core mechanics allowed by the things I'm talking about. Bungie themselves described it as "30 seconds of fun, over and over". They designed a core model that was original and great fun, and put it into an epic space opera plot with grand scale and production values.
| quote: | | as a gamer whose main interest in (traditional) FPS lies in competitive MP, I resent being called a stick for placing greater importance in certain areas, particularly in things like precision, competitive gameplay, speed/skill ceilings etc. these are, after all, part of the fundamental aspects of FPS MP. |
Granted, and I didn't expect to offend you with a throwaway insult, but I know a few guys like you who are seriously into the competitive thing and they're all completely intolerant of other perspectives on good game design. It's a real fanatical tunnel-vision outlook I always get from these guys. And don't get me wrong I respect your knowledge and opinion on games, but I've seen you on Halo over and over and yet it's pretty blatant from what you've said you just don't understand the game's design at all. And again, dismissing GoldenEye when you admit you've only played half the game and you played it several years after the fact. You can't have a fair perspective on how revolutionary games like that felt if you didn't play it until every single game being released was copying it.
I know you like to play up the abrasiveness for effect, but when you come across with an extremely hard-line and dismissive stance on particular games when you clearly don't have the knowledge to justify it, you unfortunately come across as, well... a bit of a stick. |
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| Halcyon+On+On |
| You sound awfully nostalgic. |
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| SYSTEM-J |
| quote: | Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On
You sound awfully nostalgic. |
About what? |
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| Halcyon+On+On |
About that time you brought your Gamegear to the sandbox just to tell all of the other kids they were stupid for playing with shovels. :p
Goldeneye was not revolutionary. |
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| SYSTEM-J |
| quote: | Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On
Goldeneye was not revolutionary. |
* Objective-based missions
* Pseudo-realistic AI: patrol patterns, alert/non-alert behaviour states, etc.
* Realistic level design
* Sound-based stealth
* LOS-based stealth
* Hit-boxes
* Sniping
* Drivable vehicles
* Active NPCs
I can't even be bothered to detail all the weapon and game mode innovations. As said earlier, I played just about every major FPS game released on PC or console from 1993 to the end of the decade. I know GoldenEye was revolutionary. |
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| BTG |
| quote: | Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
* Objective-based missions
* Pseudo-realistic AI: patrol patterns, alert/non-alert behaviour states, etc.
* Realistic level design
* Sound-based stealth
* LOS-based stealth
* Hit-boxes
* Sniping
* Drivable vehicles
* Active NPCs
I can't even be bothered to detail all the weapon and game mode innovations. As said earlier, I played just about every major FPS game released on PC or console from 1993 to the end of the decade. I know GoldenEye was revolutionary. |
i'll give you hitboxes.
but to be fair, Jedi Knight had hitboxes too. just not as obvious.
(hey i'm back!) |
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| Watts |
| quote: | Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
Your strawman is bull, son. Insert coin to try again. |
I liked this. |
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| Fledz |
| quote: | Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
If anything, aiming in Halo is much easier than in competitive PC titles. If you find it harder, then you simply haven't put in enough time with the control system.
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Well the hitbox does take up half the screen after all :p
It still feels very unnatural though to just use thumbs to aim.
| quote: | Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
* Objective-based missions
* Pseudo-realistic AI: patrol patterns, alert/non-alert behaviour states, etc.
* Realistic level design
* Sound-based stealth
* LOS-based stealth
* Hit-boxes
* Sniping
* Drivable vehicles
* Active NPCs
I can't even be bothered to detail all the weapon and game mode innovations. As said earlier, I played just about every major FPS game released on PC or console from 1993 to the end of the decade. I know GoldenEye was revolutionary. |
System Shock?
(For the record, I agree Golden Eye was one of the better games back then and helped drive a lot of future development, but the control system was still inherently flawed and slow because of the gamepad) |
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