Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
Valve did remake the game halfway through. Famously. It was originally scheduled for a similar release date to Quake II, but Valve weren't happy with it and spent an extra year on it. That was the beginning of "Valve time".
Ok, I don’t remember it being re-written.
quote:
Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
Melee in previous FPS games had been like grenades in previous FPS games - it was a unique weapon on the inventory. What I'm talking about is having the melee on a separate button, as with the grenades, so you can use both of them without switching weapon. That changes the gameplay massively. Massively. It's a new dimension to the options you have available at any point in combat. If you don't understand that, you simply do not understand Halo.
Oh right, I see what you’re saying now. My mistake. Still though, I don’t think this is particularly impressive, especially given the minor change in gameplay mechanic (ie eliminates the use of a shortcut key because its ever-ready). It certainly makes more sense for a controller.
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Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
Granted, and I didn't expect to offend you with a throwaway insult,
Well, im not normally. But coming from you and being seemingly unprovoked, it caught me off-guard! :)
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Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
but I know a few guys like you who are seriously into the competitive thing and they're all completely intolerant of other perspectives on good game design. It's a real fanatical tunnel-vision outlook I always get from these guys. And don't get me wrong I respect your knowledge and opinion on games, but I've seen you on Halo over and over and yet it's pretty blatant from what you've said you just don't understand the game's design at all.
look, I just don’t think halo was a particularly good game. I didn’t enjoy it. It was boring. It was slow. The health/shield system worked well but I didn’t like that mechanic, or its appearance in other titles (I don’t like the reward for hiding like a bitch). I played PC, xbox & 360 versions of halo. Didn’t like them for reasons already mentioned.
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Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
And again, dismissing GoldenEye when you admit you've only played half the game and you played it several years after the fact. You can't have a fair perspective on how revolutionary games like that felt if you haven't played it until every single game being released was copying it.
Other than my first post claiming that quake was the better title, where exactly have I “dismissed” it? I think I mentioned that it was a great game in at least 2 posts already. Having not enjoyed the MP part I wasn’t going to play SP, but yes, i wasn’t in a position to gauge its awesomeness at release, a fact which I have admitted to.
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Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
I know you like to play up the abrasiveness for effect, but when you come across with an extremely hard-line and dismissive stance on particular games when you clearly don't have the knowledge to justify it, you unfortunately come across as, well... a bit of a stick.
Fair enough, however misunderstanding your posts is not the same thing as not having the knowledge. I played more hours of halo than I care to admit, and I did not find the duel-wielding, melee-using, auto-healing options to be very much fun at all, nor such mechanics to be particularly exciting or revolutionary, and in one of those cases, was imo to the detriment of FPS generally.
BTG
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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
Ok, I don’t remember it being re-written.
it wasn't really.
but Gordon Freeman looked like a lumberjack before.....plus there were a few "scripted sequences" that were cut...like when Barney and a Scientist were arguing and a monster (that was cut from the game) came up behind them, barney threw the scientist to the ground and ran to safety.
edit:
edit #2
r5a
i miss the old days of half-life and counter strike when you could zoom with the colt. and warp around the map with gauss and long jump.
now we have ragdoll perfect cs
god damn i've grown up :(
edit. god damn that guy was hard to kill :X
infinity HiGH
quote:
Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On
Goldeneye was not revolutionary.
:haha: :haha:
BTG
anybody want to play quake live?!
i'm kinda drunk but i can play instagib.
infinity HiGH
quote:
Originally posted by Fledz
Well the hitbox does take up half the screen after all :p
It still feels very unnatural though to just use thumbs to aim.
System Shock?
(For the record, I agree Golden Eye was one of the better games back then and helped drive a lot of future development, but the control system was still inherently flawed and slow because of the gamepad)
You can't hold that against the game though as it wasn't the games fault but the hardware. Having said that though, for it's time I found the controls to be the absolute best for a console.
Fledz
I'm not holding it against it. It was just an observation :)
BTG
I think everyone can agree that goldeneye was a very fun game to play with your friends...
but I also guarantee that the new goldeneye for wii will suck dick...and that games today don't borrow ANYTHING from goldeneye, except for mutilators...
license to kill + pistols was my favorite way to play golden eye.
Omega_Blue
goldeneye and all the other old school FPS for n64 had THE WORST control scheme. ever. n64 controllers were such ing fail. they almost got it right with the thumbstick- but instead of a 2nd one, they had ing c-buttons. so retarded.
anyways, of course mouse and keyboard are where it's at for FPS, but for halo, which everyone realizes is a "slow" fps, xbox controller-s' are where it's at. i would never play halo with a mouse and keyboard.
SYSTEM-J
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Originally posted by Fledz
System Shock?
Yeah, I'll admit System Shock did a couple of those things earlier, but I tend to think of it more as an RPG title a la Ultima Underworld. Definitely an important game but it only sold 170,000 copies and so many of the things it did do were simply unknown to the larger audience. GoldenEye sold 8,000,000 copies and an important part of being a pioneer is that people listen to you and act because of you.
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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
Oh right, I see what you’re saying now. My mistake. Still though, I don’t think this is particularly impressive, especially given the minor change in gameplay mechanic (ie eliminates the use of a shortcut key because its ever-ready). It certainly makes more sense for a controller.
It's emergent gameplay from simple interaction of variables. In isolation each of the changes is very small, but because they're central to everything you do in a given moment of combat, they combine with each other for emergent patterns that are quite different to standard FPS mechanics. I don't want to get too wanky about this, but Halo, particularly MP, plays a hell of a lot different to more conventional shooters. Quakematch may be much more balanced, and I've had a hell of a lot of fun with it, but it feels almost two dimensional at times in comparison. Halo has that bit of nuance about it that makes it different, and interesting. Even if you don't like it, to downplay the importance of the gameplay mechanics suggests you simply don't know the game well enough.
Fledz
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Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
Yeah, I'll admit System Shock did a couple of those things earlier, but I tend to think of it more as an RPG title a la Ultima Underworld. Definitely an important game but it only sold 170,000 copies and so many of the things it did do were simply unknown to the larger audience. GoldenEye sold 8,000,000 copies and an important part of being a pioneer is that people listen to you and act because of you.
Mmmmmmmm there's sort of a point there and there sort of isn't. SS came out in 94, GE when, 97? 98? Sales of games have rapidly risen over the past two decades so it's not the most accurate measure.
Deus Ex to date has sold over a million copies.
If circumstances were similar now, 10 years later but with the type of sales we're seeing, it would at least triple that number if not more. Granted, DX had a slow start but sales would catch up. Not every game can be Starcraft 2 or CoD#.
Gaming in 94 also wasn't mainstream but I think by the end of the century it really was becoming mainstream.
SYSTEM-J
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Originally posted by Fledz
Mmmmmmmm there's sort of a point there and there sort of isn't. SS came out in 94, GE when, 97? 98? Sales of games have rapidly risen over the past two decades so it's not the most accurate measure.
Measure of what? I'm not trying to validate the game through its popularity. I'm stating a simple fact: System Shock was not a widely played game, and so not many people saw what it could do. Even in 1994 on the PC, 170,000 copies was not a large number. Ultima Underworld, a previous and similar Looking Glass title, sold 500,000 copies in 1992. Top PC titles of the era, such as Doom, Myst, SimCity and Civilisation, were shipping 5,000,000+ copies.
