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Producing in MONO , what why how !? (pg. 2)
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| Dj_Kile |
| yeah , i went on checking some tracks my self , many considered as club hits sounds horrible in mono |
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| Stu Cox |
| quote: | Originally posted by Eric J
Stereo as a principle only works with respect to the listeners position in relation to the position of the speakers. If I'm on a dance floor standing on the left side of the club, I'm only going to hear the left side of the stereo image. Not everyone in the club will be standing (or dancing) in a good position to get the "stereo effect", so it makes more sense to collapse the signal to mono so that anywhere you are in the club, your listening experience can remain consistent.
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This.
Some clubs do have stereo rigs, but they tend to be the kind with a very definite front, back, left and right. Venues which are also used for seated events (concerts, comedy shows, etc) are also more likely to have a stereo rig because often they'll use the same rig for all of their events.
I agree most of the time mono systems in clubs are fine and probably more appropriate than a stereo one, but in a bigger club which has a good stereo rig it can be awesome just sticking yourself in the middle of the dancefloor and absorbing it all in its high fidelity glory. |
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| evo8 |
what i tend to do these days is check it in dual-mono on my hifi rig, switching on and off the mono-plug on Live's master channel - if nothing disappears or drops too drastically back in the mix then im happy enough...
I still use basslane quite a bit on basses and stuff, or back off the chorus if its set too heavily in a patch |
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| Raphie |
Non topic again this......
only thing i can say, push the mono button every once and a while if you are in doubt to check and see if YOU are still happy.
There are no rules, or right or wrong. If you want a big stereofield you need to use phase or M/S
stereo field is a creative vision, try 70'ties Q-sound recordings in mono. |
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| kitphillips |
When producers say they produce in mono they probably mean that they convert every individual channel to mono, then pan it out as the last phase in the mixing process. It helps because it keeps everything that can be in mono mono, and also, when you pan a mono track out to the side, it sounds like it has more presence and punch in the mix than it would if it was wider. Overall, your track stays just as wide, because every individual track is panned off, but you maintain more control.
Its important, because most synth presets these days are far too wide, and this leaves your track with a wishy washy spectrum, and that often won't work in the dual mono setup they have in clubs. Encouraging people to stick to mono is also a good way of making sure that they go through and turn off the effects on their synths, which is always important when using presets, and which most people never do because they're lazy, or forget the effects section is still engaged while editing the patch.
Clubs are dual mono to help ensure that everyone on the floor can hear the whole track rather than losing bits and pieces of it if they stand a little to the left or right. Considering that (especially in trance) patches often use massive unison effects panned right out, this often means that the sound you want to be the fattest will suffer from horrible phase problems in a club, and will just eat up headroom on each individual channel while simultateneously phasing each other out.
| quote: | Originally posted by Andy28
I've just started using anti-phase meters. Some tracks I monitor, they have really wide parts in them, and the spikes on the meter shoot right off, and from what I've read this is a no-no, but these tracks are played on radio and in clubs and are obviously fine. On the other hand some tracks don't peak at all and still sound like they have good width, and I have to say, these tracks do sound better production wise.
As a result I do try and watch what I do now and don't push the stereo spread like a used to. |
I'd mix with my ears by switching into mono occasionally, rather than with my eyes. |
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| Dj_Kile |
| quote: | Originally posted by kitphillips
When producers say they produce in mono they probably mean that they convert every individual channel to mono, then pan it out as the last phase in the mixing process. |
can you please explain the panning out step , what do you mean by pan out ? |
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| kitphillips |
| Pan your mono tracks out across the stereo spectrum. |
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| Andy28 |
| quote: | Originally posted by kitphillips
I'd mix with my ears by switching into mono occasionally, rather than with my eyes. |
Yes that helps, I don't discard that, we've been down that road before :p |
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| DJ RANN |
For s sake, can we please once and for all dispell the myth that all clubs are ing MONO. :whip:
A hell of a lot of clubs are stereo, especially all the larger or higher spec ones, not to mention the venues which double up as threatre, live act or misc venues. I can count on one hand the number of venues I've been to in my life to that are only mono.
The misconception comes from two places: 1, what eric was describing as not being able to hear the full stereo spread unless you in the optimum listening position and...
2, Clubs that aren't stereo are DUAL MONO. It's not the same thing as saying MONO.
MONO means single source or channel. Dual Mono is two channels or two source so there is one channle for the L or one side of the PA and one for the R or other side
That means you don;t get the same sort of convergence between the two channels like in a stereo system (again mainly due to point number one above) but there is the inherent programmed differences of L vs R channels.
You don't need to produce in mono, but it's a good idea just to make sure your mix or certain sounds don't disappear when you collapse to mono. It's not just for clubs that may not have a perfect stereo reproduction, but also for ty one speaker radios or on old TV's etc.
So the idea is that you mix levels and track should be able to at least decently present on a mono source. One way of doing this is is what kit described, which is certainly a great way of doing it, and what you'll find in most pro mix houses, where the tracks are all individual (even the stereo are 2 channels for instance, not to mention the LCRLsRs for surround) and you build the stereo image from scratch.
Personally I find it overkill for our uses as we generally create the sounds as we go and do the mix as part of the producing process, and therefore know where sounds go in the mix.
I think it's fine to keep it a mix of mono and stereo channels, but doing regular checks in mono on the master output to make sure things don't disappear.
Ideally, you want your track to great in stereo but still OK in mono. In a perfect situation, the width would just disappear when switching to mono but the mix, relative levels and sounds are all the same. |
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| music2dance2 |
| Since I started checking my mixes in mono they have definately improved. Its a lot easier to get the levels correct then you can revert back to adjust the panning and any more adjustments. As already mentioned to check if anything disappears. |
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| theterran |
Good thread :)
From what I read it seems like the 2 biggest offenders of phasing are the kick and bass. I would guess(from what I've learned in physics/circuits) that higher energy, lower frequency waveforms will be more able to effectively cancel themselves out if they're out of phase and coming from different sources.
I assume having them mono keeps them from phasing eachother out as the sound should always be in phase from any speaker. (assuming a club with lots of speakers everywhere, like the ones I dance at)
This is also why mixing with strictly headphones is very baaaaad.
My mixes have benefited greatly from mono-checks, and mono'ing kick/bass and percs. I've found that you can creatively use reveerb and delays to create space on mono'd instruments as well, but a mono check ensures that you haven't overdone anything. (I've had some stereo effects get really whack when I swapped to mono, and I was able to fix them in mono and translate them back to stereo) |
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| music2dance2 |
| quote: | Originally posted by theterran
Good thread :)
From what I read it seems like the 2 biggest offenders of phasing are the kick and bass. I would guess(from what I've learned in physics/circuits) that higher energy, lower frequency waveforms will be more able to effectively cancel themselves out if they're out of phase and coming from different sources.
I assume having them mono keeps them from phasing eachother out as the sound should always be in phase from any speaker. (assuming a club with lots of speakers everywhere, like the ones I dance at)
This is also why mixing with strictly headphones is very baaaaad.
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Those 2 would be the least offending, if offending at all.
Other tracks in the stereo field is what you are checking mainly. Mixing with just headphones is fine it all depends on how well you know the phones you are using and quality of headphones. |
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