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Producing in MONO , what why how !? (pg. 4)
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| kitphillips |
An overall mix can be in stereo while keeping individual channels in mono. I'm probably not expressing myself that well, but thats what I'm talking about. most individual channels should be in mono, even if they later get panned out into the stereo spectrum in the final mix.
Basses SHOULD be in mono, and do sound louder. Regardless of pan laws, what you see on the meters doesn't lie, and a centred mono signal will sound more up front and in your face than a panned signal, even before you take into account phase issues and sub bass unidirectionality. |
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| kitphillips |
| quote: | Originally posted by music2dance2
Those 2 would be the least offending, if offending at all.
Other tracks in the stereo field is what you are checking mainly. Mixing with just headphones is fine it all depends on how well you know the phones you are using and quality of headphones. |
You're actually both right. Kick and bass are most important to be in mono because on most systems, the sub isn't in stereo, so they'll cancel each other out. Luckily, they're usually quite centred, because kick samples etc rarely have much information on the side channels. Basses are a bit worse, but the worst offender is actually pads, because they tend to use so much unison (if you use presets) and everyone's gotten used to that sound. Because of that, a lot of pads suffer from phase cancellation if they're put througha mono system for some reason.
So while its less likely your mids will be run in mono, its generally more fatal if they are. Unless you check for mono compatability, like you should be:gsmile: |
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| Raphie |
| quote: | Originally posted by kitphillips
An overall mix can be in stereo while keeping individual channels in mono. I'm probably not expressing myself that well, but thats what I'm talking about. most individual channels should be in mono, even if they later get panned out into the stereo spectrum in the final mix.
Basses SHOULD be in mono, and do sound louder. Regardless of pan laws, what you see on the meters doesn't lie, and a centred mono signal will sound more up front and in your face than a panned signal, even before you take into account phase issues and sub bass unidirectionality. |
Then we are saying the same thing :D |
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| ken_lee |
| quote: | Originally posted by Raphie
but these kind of threads pops up all the time |
tell me about it lol. i just keep a notepad file with all my answers and copypaste them into every thread lately. |
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| theterran |
| quote: | Originally posted by Raphie
Really most people here have no clue, don't bother to learn the basics and read and explore, they just let their mind wander free with stupid theories and hearsay....... |
Or maybe they do, they're just bored and are discussing random matters on a forum.
Don't be the "you can't discuss anything" police...Plus, I'm sure the basics have been beaten to death, or if people discuss them they get rebuked and sent to the tutorials section because you've seen their newbie question a billion times...Hell, I learned a ton from the thread I made regarding mastering, and it cleared up 99% of my misconceptions about it.
Anyway, the thread was still enjoyable to read, and learning about extra things that can affect your music could never be bad...
Such a party pooper. :P
And it's already been said, basses sound louder in mono/center on a stereo system because the load is shared between the speakers and direction is known not to matter. |
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| music2dance2 |
Not to get in the who's right and wrong arguement, as some have said we both have a point. It just seems that when you check in mono, kick and bass is obviously checked but they rarely have any phasing issues, going from experience. I find leads/synths lines etc are the main culprit. I guess I think this was as I always have those in mono anyway, so when the mono check is done I'm not looking to hear those to elements 1st.
As for using headphones, yes its always best to have monitors to mix and not solely headphones, I have both myself, but its not impossible as many producers do produce solely out of their studio's and make tracks for the dancefloor using headphones, i.e if on the road/on tour dj-ing. Its not an ideal situation but it can be done if you know your gear well enough. |
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| music2dance2 |
On a note about whats been discussed before blah blah blah, if the thread is a productive one and doesnt decend into something off topic or a great huge argument between the usual members on TA then its good.
There are some usual bits of information for people that are new to the subject and if you already know it then good for you.
Healtly discussion - all good in my book. |
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| theterran |
| quote: | Originally posted by music2dance2
Not to get in the who's right and wrong arguement, as some have said we both have a point. It just seems that when you check in mono, kick and bass is obviously checked but they rarely have any phasing issues, going from experience. I find leads/synths lines etc are the main culprit. I guess I think this was as I always have those in mono anyway, so when the mono check is done I'm not looking to hear those to elements 1st.
As for using headphones, yes its always best to have monitors to mix and not solely headphones, I have both myself, but its not impossible as many producers do produce solely out of their studio's and make tracks for the dancefloor using headphones, i.e if on the road/on tour dj-ing. Its not an ideal situation but it can be done if you know your gear well enough. |
The "you're wrong" thing was a bit of a troll sorry :P
In reality it's less about who's right or wrong but more about "Did you learn something new."
I've tried mixing solely on my Beyers once I understood them, and the mixes turn out decent. Still always best to reference off as much as conveniently available.
I also found this thread amusing because I had the same discussion with my friend who helps run a rock recording studio in L.A. And he flamed the out of me for saying that It's ok to mix with headphones. I actually find it easier to accurately place my percs with headphones rather than with monitors, not sure why but I always get better results that way.
I sometimes find these forums a little *too* serious and have fun cajoling those who get ragey about music. (not implying you do, naturally, it was more cannabis induced cajoling this time ;))
Oh and most of what anyone talks about around here can be found on google nowadays...I think that some simply forget what forums are for. |
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| sako487 |
Having some sounds contrast, stereo wise, give a really cool vibe to a track
For example, start off with mono percussion, then bring in a big high hat with a stereo field sounds really awesome.
Rule of thumb I always work with is to make sounds more MONO rather than making the stereo image larger. |
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| music2dance2 |
| quote: | Originally posted by theterran
The "you're wrong" thing was a bit of a troll sorry :P
In reality it's less about who's right or wrong but more about "Did you learn something new."
I've tried mixing solely on my Beyers once I understood them, and the mixes turn out decent. Still always best to reference off as much as conveniently available.
I also found this thread amusing because I had the same discussion with my friend who helps run a rock recording studio in L.A. And he flamed the out of me for saying that It's ok to mix with headphones. I actually find it easier to accurately place my percs with headphones rather than with monitors, not sure why but I always get better results that way.
I sometimes find these forums a little *too* serious and have fun cajoling those who get ragey about music. (not implying you do, naturally, it was more cannabis induced cajoling this time ;))
Oh and most of what anyone talks about around here can be found on google nowadays...I think that some simply forget what forums are for. |
Its all good man, I agree on the perc's though, when I'm done using my monitors and switch to headphones you can often find that some of the panning is way too much and the track can sounds lop-sided which isnt a nice feeling, something you dont always pick up using monitors. Its all down to practice and what you know best as I'm sure there are producers who dont even use headphones to test their mix.
Haha as for forum advice, yes google is indeed your friend but its always nice to get opinions from others who you speak to on a daily basis (who understand your queries that is) |
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| DJ RANN |
| quote: | Originally posted by Raphie
panning implies STEREO, so doesn't adhere to MONO.
I am sorry i sound a bit aggetated, but these kind of threads, pop up here all the time. "yeah my bass sounds much better now i use the mono maker" etc. EVER thought about panning laws and how much LOUDER a summed mono signal is compared to a stereo one.
Really most people here have no clue, don't bother to learn the basics and read and explore, they just let their mind wander free with stupid theories and hearsay....... |
. I've been trying to avoid this but here goes, and I have a feeling it's going to get juicy....
Not quite sure what you're trying to explain, but I think you're saying that mono summing affects levels of the volume of individual tracks ans their pan value are ignored.
While you're right to some extent, the specific nature depends on the panning law at hand;
If you're on a 0db (non compensated) panning law as a global or track specific setting then, yes, to a degree there will be a difference in from the levels of those tracks panned hard left or right when they are mono summed. It won't make a huge difference to those panned only small or even medium amounts (don't forget it's logarithmic) but it may for those with a lot of pan value.
However, and this is where it gets interesting, if you have you're panning law set to -3db compensated, the difference in all circumstances is negligable, meaning that if you set levels while in mono, then pan in stereo they should be very close and only need minor adjustments when back in stereo.
Now, back to the subject of mono monitoring:
To do it in a mthos of "good practise", get a basic mix in stereo to hear your sounds or at least work in stereo for the producing/arranging. Either save this project as another name (0.l etc) or boucne the audio file for refence. I think it's good to have an instinctive mix of the project to look back on at any point.
Then when you start the mixing process, start by:
1, make the master mono (via plugin or whatever your daw allows to do it) or hit the mono switch on your monior control.
2, Switch of one monitor, and face it directly.
3,Now that all the tracks are dead-center in terms of pan value, this will help in finding the appropriate frequency space for each instrument/sound. If you can hear all instruments loud and clear under these circumstances your EQing must be right in terms of frequency separation.
4, now switch back to Stereo and turn on the other monitor anbd resume normal monitoring and pan, effect and play with your knobs as desired.
5, to regular checks back to mono to make sure not too much is disappearing between the two whenever adjustments are made.
As a side note, if you're going to do this sort of mixing process or check, then IMO, you're better off using the -3db compensated panning law. This is because, at the 0db panning law, a doubling of power (from hard panned instruments switched to mono) leads to a +3 increase in db. So -3 db compensated law keeps the stuff in the middle from being twice as loud as the stuff on the sides when we sum to mono.
It will also avoid problems if ever you have to bounce to mono tracks when mixed with stereo tracks (don't ask). |
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| Raphie |
Perfectly exlained RANN, we are in agreement, you just have more patience to write it all out. :cool:
can't we make some of these posts sticky or add them to the archive? |
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