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Everything popular is wrong - Stefan Goldmann (pg. 8)
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| Zyklon_Jay |
| quote: | Originally posted by EddieZilker
That's part of the problem. :p
I've already posted, in this thread, that producers, here, tend to suffer from a little self-induced myopia. The result is a feedback loop where we can give each other often meaningful input that allows for improvement but DJ's can have a completely different take on it that is just as important; that all too often fails for being communicated.
My suggestion is that when you hear something you consider neat (not that you haven't) let the producer know and try to get to know producers in their learning continuum. I know it takes time away from other things but if people can relate to you guys, a little more, I suspect, over time, people can start developing music that is better tailored to the tastes of this board that still agrees with their artistic integrity. |
It's more the posters than anything else. Like the non stop dj bashing. The reality is that if the people saying all djs are useless could do it themselves, we wouldn't be taking "their" gigs.
You don't learn dance floor dynamics, what to play and when, flow, and tension and release techniques by never leaving the house and staring at a DAW. You actually need to go to clubs, if not to help you understand this by seeing pros do it, then to network to give you a shot at getting a gig. The funny thing is that right now the "dj" world is dominated by producers (at least on the international guest dj side) who can make great tracks but fail so hard at putting them together cohesively. It is so disappointing to see one of these acts fail at something you would figure they would have no trouble doing because, "hey, djing is easy.".
its not, because if it was you guys would know how to right?
cor version. 98% of the producers on here are muppets who like to think they are awesome, but if you threw them into a club the floor would probably be empty quicker than you can say "basshunter.". |
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| EddieZilker |
| quote: | Originally posted by Zyklon_Jay & SYSTEM-J
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I can't really think of what to add to what you guys have said and think whatever nuanced opinion I have is included in posts, prior to yours. Suffice to say that beyond some subtle differences, I pretty much agree with both of your takes on the issue. I think the potential for improvement - regarding producers, their abilities and how they relate to DJ's - is here but the proof will be in the pudding. |
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| mathieu |
| quote: | Originally posted by Zyklon_Jay
if you threw them into a club the floor would probably be empty quicker than you can say "basshunter.". |
yep im still at that level of djing :stongue: |
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| hootsh |
Am I the only one here who is perhaps crazy enough to think that the declining prices could maybe turnout to be a good thing?
When people deal with music as a job their level of performance/creativity just decrease exponentially.
I find my self thinking, if people dealt with music more like a hobby or an art -something to do on their free time-, and the whole "I-wanna-get-famous-and-have-lots-of-moneyz-&-hoes" thing got out of the equation, I think we will hear less and less crappy music everyday.
(Ironically I was just listening to the latest Deadmau5 album while reading this...wtf is that? half of the album is just 4 kicks and spamming samples in the arrangement, he actually expects people to pay money for that?)
I guess what I'm trying to say is that, when money is taken out of the equation, only the people that REALLY wanna make music will make music, and gradually each genre will get rid of the crappy stuff. It will basically be a huge popularity contest where producers only fight for reputation not cash.
At least thats what I think things will be.
Some people will of course respond with something like: "fu maan producers worked hard for their choonz maaan"
Putting aside the fact that half of them rarely do that anymore :mad: , my point is: Artists shouldn't expect something in return, art is art, we should keep it that way.
I realize its a weird-sounding idea, but I'm sure as the prices decline more and more, people will actually realize its more about the art and the cash is just a bonus. |
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| EddieZilker |
| quote: | Originally posted by hootsh
Am I the only one here who is perhaps crazy enough to think that the declining prices could maybe turnout to be a good thing?
When people deal with music as a job their level of performance/creativity just decrease exponentially.
I find my self thinking, if people dealt with music more like a hobby or an art -something to do on their free time-, and the whole "I-wanna-get-famous-and-have-lots-of-moneyz-&-hoes" thing got out of the equation, I think we will hear less and less crappy music everyday.
(Ironically I was just listening to the latest Deadmau5 album while reading this...wtf is that? half of the album is just 4 kicks and spamming samples in the arrangement, he actually expects people to pay money for that?)
I guess what I'm trying to say is that, when money is taken out of the equation, only the people that REALLY wanna make music will make music, and gradually each genre will get rid of the crappy stuff. It will basically be a huge popularity contest where producers only fight for reputation not cash.
At least thats what I think things will be.
Some people will of course respond with something like: "fu maan producers worked hard for their choonz maaan"
Putting aside the fact that half of them rarely do that anymore :mad: , my point is: Artists shouldn't expect something in return, art is art, we should keep it that way.
I realize its a weird-sounding idea, but I'm sure as the prices decline more and more, people will actually realize its more about the art and the cash is just a bonus. |
I think the complaint, where money is concerned in conjunction with the current system, is that you have a lot of artist generating a product, for a few labels, which is sold, earning a great deal of money that is disbursed disproportionately. Turning it into a popularity contest where producers fight for their reputation, while removing a cash incentive, and you have the premise for a pointless reality TV show. |
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| J.L. |
Another reason Music producer's forum is garbage nowadays is people always post positive comments for bad tracks so that they can make allies and not enemies. I listen to almost every track in that forum but it's just numbing to see the level of uninspired uncreative music there.
With each bad DJ out there, there are 10x more terrible "I downloaded warez to produce music on my ipod earphones" producers. With that said, anyone with good combination of skill, creativity, networking, and marketing will make it in time. The rest will just sit there and endlessly make tracks that suck, that are formulaic, that are good but will not get heard by anyone, or does not have a selling point.
That said, for most producers, if you plan on making it in the business, you'd better hope you have natural talent, or work your ass off to make it. |
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| Beatflux |
| quote: | Originally posted by Zyklon_Jay
It's more the posters than anything else. Like the non stop dj bashing. The reality is that if the people saying all djs are useless could do it themselves, we wouldn't be taking "their" gigs.
You don't learn dance floor dynamics, what to play and when, flow, and tension and release techniques by never leaving the house and staring at a DAW. You actually need to go to clubs, if not to help you understand this by seeing pros do it, then to network to give you a shot at getting a gig. The funny thing is that right now the "dj" world is dominated by producers (at least on the international guest dj side) who can make great tracks but fail so hard at putting them together cohesively. It is so disappointing to see one of these acts fail at something you would figure they would have no trouble doing because, "hey, djing is easy.".
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This goes along with the point that programming is one of those non essential skills DJs love to boast about.
If people are going to see a producer/DJ and they have a great time, what does it matter if the programming is good or not?
I would love to see a more humble DJ, one that does not act like the club world revolves around them.
Most DJs could be replaced by a computer. |
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| EddieZilker |
| quote: | Originally posted by Beatflux
This goes along with the point that programming is one of those non essential skills DJs love to boast about.
If people are going to see a producer/DJ and they have a great time, what does it matter if the programming is good or not?
I would love to see a more humble DJ, one that does not act like the club world revolves around them.
Most DJs could be replaced by a computer. |
Obvious troll is obvious. |
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| kitphillips |
^^^^ I can only hope its a troll :eyes:
| quote: | Originally posted by EddieZilker
That's part of the problem. :p
I've already posted, in this thread, that producers, here, tend to suffer from a little self-induced myopia. The result is a feedback loop where we can give each other often meaningful input that allows for improvement but DJ's can have a completely different take on it that is just as important; that all too often fails for being communicated.
My suggestion is that when you hear something you consider neat (not that you haven't) let the producer know and try to get to know producers in their learning continuum. I know it takes time away from other things but if people can relate to you guys, a little more, I suspect, over time, people can start developing music that is better tailored to the tastes of this board that still agrees with their artistic integrity. |
DJs don't have a responsibility to come in here and lecture a bunch of producers who never go out, are completely bigoted and spend all day either licking each other's balls or engaging in playground fights. Honestly, DJs have their own favourite artists and more music than we can keep up with, none of them are going to need TA producers to make tracks for them, even if they could. |
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| Zyklon_Jay |
| quote: | Originally posted by Beatflux
This goes along with the point that programming is one of those non essential skills DJs love to boast about.
If people are going to see a producer/DJ and they have a great time, what does it matter if the programming is good or not?
I would love to see a more humble DJ, one that does not act like the club world revolves around them.
Most DJs could be replaced by a computer. |
you are an idiot that will never gig if you believe this. |
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| EddieZilker |
If it's not a troll, it's still stupidly counter-productive and qualifies as the -I-am-getting-tired-of.
| quote: | Originally posted by kitphillips
^^^^ I can only hope its a troll :eyes:
DJs don't have a responsibility to come in here and lecture a bunch of producers who never go out, are completely bigoted and spend all day either licking each other's balls or engaging in playground fights. Honestly, DJs have their own favourite artists and more music than we can keep up with, none of them are going to need TA producers to make tracks for them, even if they could. |
You're right and I'm not saying they do. The fact is that TA DJ's can, have, and will continue to do just fine without us. I think it would be enormously beneficial for TA producers to take TA DJ's more seriously and I think both could learn a lot from each other but it's up to any TA producer to be worthy of that exchange.
The problems you, among others, highlighted have helped to both foster an atmosphere of chaos and the producer forums' (both PS & MPP) bad reputation, but Diginut and others seem willing to change that and not let the continual trolling and flamewars slide. That chaos is a result of a failure to imagine anything better, and it seems like everyone who's actually interested in producing music, has had enough. As I said to Jay, the proof will be in the pudding, but I'm optimistic, for now. |
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| Zyklon_Jay |
the programming comment was by far the most retarded thing i have ever read on this forum.
do you enjoy productions if the mixdowns are bad? if all of the elements are out of time? if the progression of the track makes no sense? if the sounds appeal 0 to the crowd?
the answer is most likely no. the same can be said for a dj set.
people go out to have fun. if the dj sucks they don't dance, that simple. If you ever left the confines of your house to witness this first hand you would realize this.
on top of that, how many guys here could do a 6 hour set of just their stuff? Even if you could chances are it would not work and become redundant unless you produce a varied bunch of tracks.
It is easy to say all these things in your heads will work in principle, but as someone who has been around a long time and attending events since the mid 90's i can tell you right now that what you want to happen never will. |
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