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30 NATO troops die in Afghanistan (pg. 5)
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| Tasty Onions |
It's great writing and great acting, hard not to enjoy it in that sense. Just not fit to be taken seriously as ideology, IMO.
:p |
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| Joss Weatherby |
| quote: | Originally posted by srussell0018
My question is what exactly is the purpose of their service in this instance? Would you be so critical of someone expressing indifference towards the death of mercenaries?
(Not saying US soldiers are mercenaries per se, but I imagine there is a decent percentage of soldiers who are only fighting because they have to. They're not doing it to serve and protect our country, they're doing it because they're being paid to do it, and because they didn't have any other option after high school. Now that I really think about it, what exactly separates these soldiers from mercenaries, apart from the fact that they're fighting in their own country's military?)
In addition to that, we don't have any idea about the men who were killed. They could have been terrible people. I mean, they're trained to kill people for one, and there have been countless documentations of atrocities committed by servicemen towards civilians, and I'm sure there are even more that go unreported. Essentially what I'm saying is that just because somebody is wearing a uniform does not necessarily make them an honorable person, a good person, or a person whose death warrants any more reverence than yours or mine would. |
Finding the appropriate amount of respect and sadness to express over the death of soldiers is something societies have struggled with for ages. No one should like to see anyone killed, but in the end these were professional soldiers. Their job was to put themselves in harms way and the possibility of them being killed was great.
In my opinion you should grieve for the ones they leave behind, their families. Finding sadness/anger in their death in some ways, again, in my opinion, is disrespecting the choices they made to go into harms way. Grieving for the families of those who fall in battle, on either side is the most humanitarian place to put your feelings, because they are the ones that end up suffering the longest, and you can apply it to all sides in a conflict. Remember that everyone who dies in war is someones child, brother, sister, mother, father, etc, even when the dead are the enemy. |
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| VDub |
| All people are saying is that you don't have to grieve their deaths. But they shouldn't be disrespected either... |
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| EddieZilker |
| quote: | Originally posted by nchs09
I thought you where going to off.. or did i misread your last post? Go cry somewhere else. |
So basically, I expose your hypocrisy and you back down with some passive-aggressive parting shot.
Pretty telling, when your convictions aren't very well funded with the courage you use to defend them.
| quote: | Originally posted by srussell0018
My question is what exactly is the purpose of their service in this instance? Would you be so critical of someone expressing indifference towards the death of mercenaries?
(Not saying US soldiers are mercenaries per se, but I imagine there is a decent percentage of soldiers who are only fighting because they have to. They're not doing it to serve and protect our country, they're doing it because they're being paid to do it, and because they didn't have any other option after high school. Now that I really think about it, what exactly separates these soldiers from mercenaries, apart from the fact that they're fighting in their own country's military?)
In addition to that, we don't have any idea about the men who were killed. They could have been terrible people. I mean, they're trained to kill people for one, and there have been countless documentations of atrocities committed by servicemen towards civilians, and I'm sure there are even more that go unreported. Essentially what I'm saying is that just because somebody is wearing a uniform does not necessarily make them an honorable person, a good person, or a person whose death warrants any more reverence than yours or mine would. |
But they weren't mercenaries shooting civilians in down-town Baghdad. Most of them were Navy Seals who are never constituted with the shiftless high-school dropouts recruited by the military because of a lack of viable option; but even if they were drop-outs, they'd deserve respect. The scope of their mission in Afghanistan is also entirely different. You can't lump them in with Rolling Stone's accounts of the obviously ill-placed recruits who reflect that collective nightmare of who we don't want to be, as a nation.
Yes. These guys knowingly put themselves in harms way and often, in positions where they knew or should have known they'd be morally compromised, but that is part and parcel to the sacrifice they make and that's one of the reasons why they get my respect bordering on deference. It's not given out of some misplaced patriotism or even a blame-America-last jingoistic perversion.
That said, you seem to be advocating for some dispassionate indifference along with attributing such a motivation to nchs09. I'd suggest that dispassionate indifference is far more respectful than the utter contempt nchs09 seems all too eager to dish out but not quite fortified enough to defend. |
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| srussell0018 |
I actually agree with you almost entirely in that their deaths should obviously not be mocked, given the ultimate sacrifice that they made. I was just playing devil's advocate.
The only thing I take issue with is anyone who wears a uniform being given some elevated level of respect for that fact alone. I'm sure there are plenty of awful people in the military. |
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| VAR |
this is a thread about US Operators dying while in service.
if you don't agree with the war or other issues, please make a new thread. otherwise it has the same flavor as the westboro baptist church.
i have lost blood, sweat, tears, and Friends so that US Citizens can exercise their First Amendment right to free speech.
i can only hope that people would do it where/when appropriate or in the least not disrespectfully.
the reasons that there are less KIAs now then there were in WWII and the Korea conflict are;
body armor- started in the Vietnam conflict and has improved by leaps and bounds.
MEDEVAC- using helicopters for rapid evacuation of the wounded from the combat area to field hospitals.
medical technology- plasma expanders are just one example.
with a decrease in Killed In Action comes an increase in amputees and PTSD sufferers.
combat is the same now as it was back before World War One.
even with all the technological advances,
some Joe still has to clear the building with his rifle before we own it. |
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| nchs09 |
| quote: | Originally posted by EddieZilker
So basically, I expose your hypocrisy and you back down with some passive-aggressive parting shot.
Pretty telling, when your convictions aren't very well funded with the courage you use to defend them.
But they weren't mercenaries shooting civilians in down-town Baghdad. Most of them were Navy Seals who are never constituted with the shiftless high-school dropouts recruited by the military because of a lack of viable option; but even if they were drop-outs, they'd deserve respect. The scope of their mission in Afghanistan is also entirely different. You can't lump them in with Rolling Stone's accounts of the obviously ill-placed recruits who reflect that collective nightmare of who we don't want to be, as a nation.
Yes. These guys knowingly put themselves in harms way and often, in positions where they knew or should have known they'd be morally compromised, but that is part and parcel to the sacrifice they make and that's one of the reasons why they get my respect bordering on deference. It's not given out of some misplaced patriotism or even a blame-America-last jingoistic perversion.
That said, you seem to be advocating for some dispassionate indifference along with attributing such a motivation to nchs09. I'd suggest that dispassionate indifference is far more respectful than the utter contempt nchs09 seems all too eager to dish out but not quite fortified enough to defend. |
I dont come to TA to write a page long response -- nor do i come to defend a point of view from a right wing goon or you.
But carry on, as i feel no need to defend my position. |
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| EddieZilker |
| quote: | Originally posted by nchs09
I dont come to TA to write a page long response -- nor do i come to defend a point of view from a right wing goon or you.
But carry on, as i feel no need to defend my position. |
It's not your point of view you should be worried about defending.
It's your credibility that's looking quite indefensible. |
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| RyanVice |
nchs09
THIS GUY!!!
You're gonna get your ass kicked.
RIP SOCOM & the hundreds and thousands of US military service members who make sacrifices so we can enjoy our freedoms |
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| Redd |
| quote: | Originally posted by RyanVice
our freedoms |
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