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clockwork orange (pg. 7)
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| all this talk has put me in the mood to watch primer. |
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| dj_alfi |
| Star Wars is a space opera, and anyone who says different is misinformed. |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| space opera is just a sub genre of scifi. |
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| dj_alfi |
Noone is disputing that fact. I'm just saying, classifying Star Wars as anything broader than space opera is wrong.
Oh, and @ Lira, regarding this:
| quote: | | Star Wars isn't science fiction because of the plot: with little effort you can remove the characters from that galaxy far far away and put them somewhere in Medieval times with just a few adaptations (forcesabers that feed on human spirit instead of lightsabers, for example) the story can go on. |
Make it a Katana instead of a forcesaber, and you've pretty much reverse engineered the stories where Lucas got the plots from originally. |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by dj_alfi
Noone is disputing that fact. I'm just saying, classifying Star Wars as anything broader than space opera is wrong. |
so when you go into a bookstore to buy a star wars novel you say to the attendent "oh, could you show me to the space opera section please?" :p |
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| dj_alfi |
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
so when you go into a bookstore to buy a star wars novel you say to the attendent "oh, could you show me to the space opera section please?" :p |
Nah, they pretty much know me over there by now, so they just keep a stack of Star Wars novels under the counter for me. |
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| SYSTEM-J |
| quote: | Originally posted by nefardec
I think that a lot of sci-fi writers try to cast these kind of pseudospiritual magical things as actually a super-advanced form of technology. In a lot of scifi, mastery of the psyche tends to be the highest form of technology, usually employed or owned by the 'aliens', and often it represents the point at which man meets his maker, ultimate knowledge. i can think of dozens of sci fi stories in which this kind of spiritual and psychic stuff is portrayed as advanced alien technology and super intelligence.
Because of this I don't agree that this kind of science fiction is really different than any 'despiritualized' science fiction. |
I'm not sure you're following. What you've just described is despiritualisation. I'm not saying that pseudo-mystical themes preclude something from being science fiction, I'm saying that it depends on the discourse in which these themes are rooted. If you conflate spiritualism with technology there is an inherent subtext that is massively different to attributing it to some ineffable power that resides beyond our knowledge. The function within the plot may be absolutely identical, but the feel of the universe is radically altered. That's why so many Star Wars fans were enraged by the midichlorians idea.
Perhaps a better way of putting it is that there are never metaphysics to SF spirituality, only physics.
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
Thanks! And agreed completely. Well, except for the metonymical part, but probably would agree did I know what it meant. |
That simply means that the robots/aliens/radioactive ants/whatever represent the larger themes of the text. For example, if Godzilla is an allegory for nuclear war, Godzilla himself represents the bomb. If The Thing is an allegory for the AIDS virus, the Thing itself represents the virus. In science fiction, the symbolism tends to be running around inside the plot, eating people. It's a concrete, materialist genre.
To use the example nefardec gave above, in science fiction, any magical/psychic powers will usually come from something physical, inside the text. In The Forbidden Planet, the source of Dr Morbius' psychic powers and higher knowlege is a machine built by an extinct race of aliens. There is a physical, concrete, literal source that a character in the film can touch and operate. |
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| Lira |
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
That star wars follows a well-established mythic narrative does not preclude it from being science fiction. In 2011, something is science fiction if it has robots and spaceships. Scifi is more than just a genre now; is also a setting. The major difference between hard and soft scifi is hard spends much more time attempting to suspend your disbelief with “realistic” explanations. |
If you see "sci fi" as a setting, more than as a genre, then I suppose you could say that.
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
Torchwood is no more science fiction than star wars. It essentially does what system-j alluded to- use science as a narrative device to create fantastic nonsense. |
With the excpetion of an episode or two, I always thought it leaned towards the scientific side, with science porn and whatnot. Maybe I should watch it again... it's been a while.
Have you seen Miracle Day yet? (TW's new series) |
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| Lira |
| By the way, System-J, did you see the reply I wrote for you? |
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| nefardec |
| quote: | Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
I'm not sure you're following. What you've just described is despiritualisation. I'm not saying that pseudo-mystical themes preclude something from being science fiction, I'm saying that it depends on the discourse in which these themes are rooted. If you conflate spiritualism with technology there is an inherent subtext that is massively different to attributing it to some ineffable power that resides beyond our knowledge. The function within the plot may be absolutely identical, but the feel of the universe is radically altered. That's why so many Star Wars fans were enraged by the midichlorians idea.
Perhaps a better way of putting it is that there are never metaphysics to SF spirituality, only physics.
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maybe the difference in view of this is also representative of our difference in view of 'spirituality'. i'm coming from a monistic philosophy. when i say 'spiritual' i mean something more like consciousness being the fine fiber of experience and matter being the larger grain.
i don't see the point of trying to create such hard and fast rules though.
what do you make of 'contact'? no metaphysics?
"for small creatures such as we the vastness is bearable only through love"
"the artist's signature"
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| Meat187 |
Sigh.
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