The collapse of the towers seemed odd as the main factor of their destruction were planes driven into them. Why would it fall without an inclining angle? Also, how come security tapes and black box weren't released publicly? We can't forget how the FBI also reported finding a terrorist passport in the WTC rubble, which they also did not release.
I can understand these questions can be of an annoyance, since you can find them in conspiracy movies. So i will ask you a more direct question.
Where might i obtain credible evidence from a credible source, a real run down of the whole incident without any substantial evidence.
pkcRAISTLIN
quote:
Originally posted by knowhope
The collapse of the towers seemed odd as the main factor of their destruction were planes driven into them. Why would it fall without an inclining angle?
I think this confusion is driven by the lack of appreciation for the nature of the the twin towers’ design.
Normal office building structure:
Twin towers design (note the supporting steel is almost completely on the exterior of the building):
shown here:
here is a single floor that shows the relatively small amount of support each floor had with the adjoining steel walls:
Can you imagine those floors giving way? I can.
quote:
Originally posted by knowhope
Also, how come security tapes and black box weren't released publicly?
I am not sure the black boxes from the WTC were ever recovered. The black boxes from shankesville and the pentagon were released as far as I know.
quote:
Originally posted by knowhope
We can't forget how the FBI also reported finding a terrorist passport in the WTC rubble, which they also did not release.
Pretty sure I’ve seen pictures of it so that’s released as far as I’m concerned. There were personal effects found after the recent shuttle explosion too. Small items can make it through explosions (check out the debris flying out of the towers after each plane hit).
quote:
Originally posted by knowhope
I can understand these questions can be of an annoyance, since you can find them in conspiracy movies. So i will ask you a more direct question.
Where might i obtain credible evidence from a credible source, a real run down of the whole incident without any substantial evidence.
mother of lord. It's Soviet style construction... Make it look strong and cool, but the innards all cheaply done.
The site is what i was looking for. Thanks
pkcRAISTLIN
quote:
Originally posted by knowhope
mother of lord. It's Soviet style construction... Make it look strong and cool, but the innards all cheaply done.
haha, im not sure it’s quite that bad; the towers’ construction was designed to maximise floor space. And they both still stood for an hour or so after being hit by planes flown at full tilt.
quote:
Originally posted by knowhope
The site is what i was looking for. Thanks
No probs. I don’t mind asking honest questions. It’s the BS intellectual dishonesty of truthers that drives me nuts.
FuzzQi
quote:
Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
I think this confusion is driven by the lack of appreciation for the nature of the the twin towers’ design.
I am not sure the black boxes from the WTC were ever recovered. The black boxes from shankesville and the pentagon were released as far as I know.
Pretty sure I’ve seen pictures of it so that’s released as far as I’m concerned. There were personal effects found after the recent shuttle explosion too. Small items can make it through explosions (check out the debris flying out of the towers after each plane hit).
An intense close up where you can here the floors collapsing on top of each other. Very poor construction.
prolikewhoa
quote:
Originally posted by jonSun
An intense close up where you can here the floors collapsing on top of each other. Very poor construction.
holy ... that video is insane...
DJ RANN
Didn't read the whole thread but wanted to clear some things up.
1, The black boxes at the WTC were never found. Two firefighters came forward saying they found 3 out of 4 of them and turned them, and later said they were told to "keep quiet" by people they believed were FBI agents but their stories could never be corroborated and no FBI agents were ever identified.
The black box was recovered from flight 93 however.
2, The WTC collapsed exactly as you would expect given a jet fuel fire, a steel exoskeleton, concrete center design. I was discussing this with the owner of California's largest building contractor (who built most of downtown LA's skyscapers) and he said steel reinforced structures are strong but the moment that construction grade steel is exposed to temperatures in excess of 400 degrees they become incredibly weak and lose all material and structural strength. The weight of even one floor would be enough to crush the floor below with the temperatures that are recorded with jet fuel.
3, Not sure if it's been mentioned, and even though the truthers are a bunch of deluded twats, there are some every strange things that don't make sense. the first is a book in German that was a no1 best seller about anomalies in the way the terrorists had been flagged by the INS and Immigration at airports, but were somehow all allowed a "free pass" to waltz through (with exception of one out of 19). The book also details the way witness accounts and statements both of people who came in to contact with the terrorists, and how cleanup investigations were dealt with at ground zero directly following the attack; many, simply disappeared (although recorded as existing) some were never reported even though the subjects give detailed accounts of how and who they were interviewed by.
The book has never been published in any other language than German, and after the first edition, the publisher was convinced to recall pulp all unsold copies. No publisher, in any country, will touch the text and the author has literally disappeared from Germany.
Who knows what happened but it's ing weird.
The final thing, all the conspiracy BS aside, I have no doubt in my mind that the last plane was shot down. There are several witness accounts, especially one from the owner of the land where the crash happened, where they state it was upside with smoke billowing from the underside just prior to impact. It is know that F16's were tracking it and it's target was white house. "Let's roll" while all very heroic and neat, is just consolation for families. In fairness, why not. I'd prefer to beleive that in their place.
pkcRAISTLIN
quote:
Originally posted by DJ RANN
The final thing, all the conspiracy BS aside, I have no doubt in my mind that the last plane was shot down. There are several witness accounts, especially one from the owner of the land where the crash happened, where they state it was upside with smoke billowing from the underside just prior to impact. It is know that F16's were tracking it and it's target was white house. "Let's roll" while all very heroic and neat, is just consolation for families. In fairness, why not. I'd prefer to beleive that in their place.
You mean the F16’s that were unloaded?
quote:
Late in the morning of the Tuesday that changed everything, Lt. Heather “Lucky” Penney was on a runway at Andrews Air Force Base and ready to fly. She had her hand on the throttle of an F-16 and she had her orders: Bring down United Airlines Flight 93. The day’s fourth hijacked airliner seemed to be hurtling toward Washington. Penney, one of the first two combat pilots in the air that morning, was told to stop it.
The one thing she didn’t have as she roared into the crystalline sky was live ammunition. Or missiles. Or anything at all to throw at a hostile aircraft.
Except her own plane. So that was the plan.
Because the surprise attacks were unfolding, in that innocent age, faster than they could arm war planes, Penney and her commanding officer went up to fly their jets straight into a Boeing 757.
“We wouldn’t be shooting it down. We’d be ramming the aircraft,” Penney recalls of her charge that day. “I would essentially be a kamikaze pilot.”
I see nothing unusual about a plane upside down as terrorist pilots attempt to maintain control of the mutinying passengers.
There is no evidence to support 93 being shot down.
knowhope
On the subject of Michael Moores 9/11 fahrenheit, would you find it bull ? The link of Saudi rich aristocrates to the US and especially the Bush administration.
The evacuation of Osamas family and such...
And the US showed the world that Osama himself proclaimed he orchestrated the attacks, but this video was low quality and Osama was chubby which didn't seem at all to be him.
Also, why didn't the fighter jets shoot down the planes? Could have saved many more lives.
Again PKC, i am using some biased documentary, but i also couldn't find specifics about these in the website.
pkcRAISTLIN
quote:
Originally posted by knowhope
On the subject of Michael Moores 9/11 fahrenheit, would you find it bull ? The link of Saudi rich aristocrates to the US and especially the Bush administration.
The evacuation of Osamas family and such...
I haven’t seen the movie as I don’t rate Michael moore as a researcher. I do know that the bin ladens were in the US at the time of the attacks, and they left around the 20th September (who wouldn’t?) after being vetted by the FBI. Im not much of a “guilt by association” kinda guy, so the links between the Saudis and bush business dealings aren’t all that relevant to me. Im sure there are lots of businesses around the world that are related in some way.
quote:
Originally posted by knowhope
And the US showed the world that Osama himself proclaimed he orchestrated the attacks, but this video was low quality and Osama was chubby which didn't seem at all to be him.
Hehe, osama isn’t “chubby” in the video. That’s what you get when you transfer PAL to NTSC (or the other way around, I forget). If you watch the entire video, it is quite obviously osama and his cronies. He has also made numerous other admittances re 911.
quote:
Originally posted by knowhope
Also, why didn't the fighter jets shoot down the planes? Could have saved many more lives.
Because nobody knew where the planes were (or at least they didn’t know quickly enough), AND according to the above post I made, the jets weren’t even armed at the time. There is a huge amount of data regarding NORAD that you can dig into if you want, but the long and the short is nobody seemed to know where the planes were or where they were going.
quote:
Originally posted by knowhope
Again PKC, i am using some biased documentary, but i also couldn't find specifics about these in the website.
That’s cool, at least you know what you’re in for.
