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10 Year Anniversary 9/11 Tribute Thread (pg. 15)
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| Trance-MB |
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
Ahhhh, so you’re from the “sometimes science is wrong so I can believe in any old nonsense” school of thought.
I’ve already provided this link which covers 90% of truther nonsense.
http://sites.google.com/site/wtc7lies |
Wait, both can be scientific and still be wrong, that has happened often in the past.
But please tell me why did you say "didn't hear too many" instead of "didn't hear any"? Is the first just a way of saying the second? |
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| DJ RANN |
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
You mean the F16’s that were unloaded?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...cODK_story.html
I see nothing unusual about a plane upside down as terrorist pilots attempt to maintain control of the mutinying passengers.
There is no evidence to support 93 being shot down. |
Here's why I believe it was.
1, I was living an hour away from NY when the attack happened. I never turn on the TV first thing in the morning, but I couldn't find my watch so flicked it on and 15 seconds later saw the second plane hit, live.
Later that day I was watching coverage on a local TV station, and some news crew had tracked down the owner of the land where 93 went down and interviewed him live. His exact words were "I saw the plane, it was upside down, hurtling towards the ground with thick smoke coming from the underside"
To this day, I have scoured the web and I have never seen that piece of tape repeated. I would doubt whether I truly saw it if my GF didn't happen watch it with me.
Now while I take all witness accounts with a pinch of salt, that guy had no reason to lie, and the fact that one witness account has never been repeated, although not proof in any form, makes me question what happened.
so 2, Official Norad and white house records show that the authorization to shoot down any more planes were given directly after the second plane crashed, meaning at latest by 9:45am, or 25 minutes before 93 crashed.
3, Norad records show that there 3 F16's dispatched to flight 93 that morning, but none apart from Penney have ever spoken to press. (and by the way, that WP artical you referenced did not start life as an interview, it was a press release put out by the USAF - google it). In fact, none of the other pilots have ever been named due to "security concerns".
4, The F16's position was recorded over DC at 9:35m - at 500 mph (not even close to their top speed) they would have intercepted the jet in less than 15 minitues. What did they do for that 15 minutes?
5, 93 was only 15 minutes away from DC when it went down. The f16's were coming from the opposite direction meaning their closing speed was halved but still somehow didn't make it the jet in 35 minutes.
6, The f16's were officially listed at flying at only 24% of their top speed, which is A) against emergency intercept protocol B) far slower than the F15's the were sent to the WTC. No reason for this has ever been given, and no one has been reprimanded for this "mistake".
7, F-16 cruising speed is 577MPH and has a max of at least 1,800 mph according to their stats. If they were doing say, 1000mph (or about 17 miles a minute)these F-16's were less than 2 minutes out of unclassified missile range from 93 at 9:45am.
8,According the accident investigators, debris patterns clearly indicated that the plane came apart before impact. This fact has never been reconciled with the official line.
9, The Nashua Telegraph reported the an account by air traffic controllers that day. One controller stated he saw at least one f16 in "hot pursuit" that did circling maneuvers so that he did not go past it flight 93. No one else has ever published this story or interviewed that controller further.
10, The line that they "had no idea where 93 was" was debunked by cheyney himself shortly after 9/11 in an interview with NBC. He stated along with the shoot down authorization, "F16's and AWACS were present" as "It doesn't do any good to put up a combat air patrol if you don't give them instructions to act, if, in fact, they feel it's appropriate".
11, Ever since Bin Laden's project Bojinka in 1995 became known, US military practiced Hijacked plane take downs for high value targets.
I could go on but to summarize my reasons for at least considering it are:
-There were f16's in the air that had more than ample time to reach 93.
-The official authorization to destroy any more planes had been given in good time, prior to even the pentagon being hit, let alone 93.
-The timeline from NORAD and the whitehouse all makes sense apart from for the three F16's for interception of 93 (where pilots apparently did nothing and ground staff took record time to get off the ground, and somehow still were not armed)
-The eyewitness report from the landowner saying 93 hit the ground upside down already smoking.
-Investigators concluded debris showed it was broken up prior to impact
-The "lets roll" story (while I believe they made an attempt) makes a heroic and perfectly neat story (as opposed to the president having to admit he killed US citizens to protect the Whitehouse).
I'm not completely sold, but there's just too many strange unanswered questions to ignore the possibility. |
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| Trance-MB |
LOL, so my boss went to NY last Sunday for a board meeting. Flight with Continental from Brussels was pretty cheap on 9/11. After a lot of bull questions they could enter the plane. (The morons asked him what he did yesterday.)
First thing he noticed: no headphones.... Then the message the entertainment system was broken, sure it was....
Then two times during the flight: It is very nice weather in NY. Half an hour before descent: Bad weather and turbulence in NY, fasten your seatbelt and stay seated.
People were like: s, just say that because of security reasons people should remain in there seats and don't give us this crap. |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by Trance-MB
Wait, both can be scientific and still be wrong, that has happened often in the past. [/qutoe]
Except there’s nothing scientific about truther nonsense of course.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Trance-MB
But please tell me why did you say "didn't hear too many" instead of "didn't hear any"? Is the first just a way of saying the second? |
More or less the same thing. When I know a bunch of claims are complete nonsense (or the inference of them is nonsense) then I am not driven to find out any more because I know there’s an almost 100% chance that they too will be bull.
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
Here's why I believe it was.
1, I was living an hour away from NY when the attack happened. I never turn on the TV first thing in the morning, but I couldn't find my watch so flicked it on and 15 seconds later saw the second plane hit, live.
Later that day I was watching coverage on a local TV station, and some news crew had tracked down the owner of the land where 93 went down and interviewed him live. His exact words were "I saw the plane, it was upside down, hurtling towards the ground with thick smoke coming from the underside"
To this day, I have scoured the web and I have never seen that piece of tape repeated. I would doubt whether I truly saw it if my GF didn't happen watch it with me.
Now while I take all witness accounts with a pinch of salt, that guy had no reason to lie, and the fact that one witness account has never been repeated, although not proof in any form, makes me question what happened.
so 2, Official Norad and white house records show that the authorization to shoot down any more planes were given directly after the second plane crashed, meaning at latest by 9:45am, or 25 minutes before 93 crashed.
3, Norad records show that there 3 F16's dispatched to flight 93 that morning, but none apart from Penney have ever spoken to press. (and by the way, that WP artical you referenced did not start life as an interview, it was a press release put out by the USAF - google it). In fact, none of the other pilots have ever been named due to "security concerns".
4, The F16's position was recorded over DC at 9:35m - at 500 mph (not even close to their top speed) they would have intercepted the jet in less than 15 minitues. What did they do for that 15 minutes?
5, 93 was only 15 minutes away from DC when it went down. The f16's were coming from the opposite direction meaning their closing speed was halved but still somehow didn't make it the jet in 35 minutes.
6, The f16's were officially listed at flying at only 24% of their top speed, which is A) against emergency intercept protocol B) far slower than the F15's the were sent to the WTC. No reason for this has ever been given, and no one has been reprimanded for this "mistake".
7, F-16 cruising speed is 577MPH and has a max of at least 1,800 mph according to their stats. If they were doing say, 1000mph (or about 17 miles a minute)these F-16's were less than 2 minutes out of unclassified missile range from 93 at 9:45am.
8,According the accident investigators, debris patterns clearly indicated that the plane came apart before impact. This fact has never been reconciled with the official line.
9, The Nashua Telegraph reported the an account by air traffic controllers that day. One controller stated he saw at least one f16 in "hot pursuit" that did circling maneuvers so that he did not go past it flight 93. No one else has ever published this story or interviewed that controller further.
10, The line that they "had no idea where 93 was" was debunked by cheyney himself shortly after 9/11 in an interview with NBC. He stated along with the shoot down authorization, "F16's and AWACS were present" as "It doesn't do any good to put up a combat air patrol if you don't give them instructions to act, if, in fact, they feel it's appropriate".
11, Ever since Bin Laden's project Bojinka in 1995 became known, US military practiced Hijacked plane take downs for high value targets.
I could go on but to summarize my reasons for at least considering it are:
-There were f16's in the air that had more than ample time to reach 93.
-The official authorization to destroy any more planes had been given in good time, prior to even the pentagon being hit, let alone 93.
-The timeline from NORAD and the whitehouse all makes sense apart from for the three F16's for interception of 93 (where pilots apparently did nothing and ground staff took record time to get off the ground, and somehow still were not armed)
-The eyewitness report from the landowner saying 93 hit the ground upside down already smoking.
-Investigators concluded debris showed it was broken up prior to impact
-The "lets roll" story (while I believe they made an attempt) makes a heroic and perfectly neat story (as opposed to the president having to admit he killed US citizens to protect the Whitehouse).
I'm not completely sold, but there's just too many strange unanswered questions to ignore the possibility. |
Hey, you’ll believe whatever you will. What I said was there is no evidence to suggest the fight was shot down. And there isn’t. if, as you say, the orders were given to shoot down any more hijacked craft, and they did shoot down 93, then that’s what we would’ve been told (eventually). There was no need to make up a story about 93. Everyone would understand the necessity of shooting it down. I’ll see your single eye witness and raise you several dozen:
http://sites.google.com/site/wtc7lies/flight93page1
The claim that passengers attempted to re-take the plane is also well supported:
| quote: |
After learning about the other attacks, passengers and cabin crew attempted to retake the cockpit but were apparently unable to gain entry. The sound of their attempts was recorded on the CVR. The CVR also recorded the hijackers' decision to end the flight, followed by repeated shouts of "Allahu Akbar!" ("God is greatest.") until the plane crashed. Families of victims heard the CVR recording. |
No blast or evidence of being shot at is recorded or mentioned by anyone. |
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| Moongoose |
Ive just returned from a short visit of a truther website, something that i tried very hard to avoid in the past...and for good reason, i cant seem to stop laughing. This guy in the space of a few paragraphs "mathematically prooved" that whatever hit the pentagon was travelling ot as the snail like 500-800mph which would indicate it was a plane but at 9204 mph (yes thats not a typo, he really wrote 9204mph), and then that the reason that OVER A HUN DRED WITNESSES SAW THE DAMN PLANE CRASH, was that the missle was disguised as a 757 with holograms...
Im troubled that people with that level of stupidity walk among us, and we dont even realise it. I mean this people dont even know they are stupid. They just go about their daily lives never realising just how stupid they are. I find that troubling. |
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| Holtsoi |
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| Sushipunk |
| ^^ I'm going to leave that bot post there just because it's ing hilarious :stongue: |
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| shaw |
| Aw yeah. New status. |
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| knowhope |
I can somewhat agree that the WTC was an outside job (alquaeda), but i still have some doubts. The reality is that the US took advantage of this situation. This is undeniable. So i can understand why people want a re-investigation and it is a valid point, since the 9/11 commission has less fact than winnie the pooh.
I don't care what you think of 9/11, but i'm happy people are questioning their government. Awareness is key. |
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| Sushipunk |
| quote: | Originally posted by shaw
Aw yeah. New status. |
:haha: |
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| jester |
Not sure if any of you went this weekend... put here is one of many idiotic things I saw at the site.
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