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Hardware or software synth (pg. 3)
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| Sean Walsh |
| quote: | Originally posted by cryophonik
I had a Zero SL (mk1) for a short while years ago and was not impressed. I would suggest looking at a lot of reviews and ask a lot of questions before buying it (i.e., don't just take my word for it). AutoMap was a giant PITA, was buggy as hell (it may be better now, although I haven't read many positive user reviews), and you end up with copies of every .dll file (the normal and the automap version) scattered all over your hard drive. |
I just got a Novation Impulse 25 and it did that lame .dll duplication bull. Makes my VST list really annoying to look at now because everything is ing duplicated with "(Automap)" beside it. Fortunately I only work with a dozen or so plugins, else I'd be really angry.
I really like the keyboard itself though. |
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| Fledz |
| quote: | Originally posted by tehlord
I still think the Virus is one of the most overrated and overpriced synths i've owned, and will continue to say so if prompted. |
I'm absolutely loving it. Grabbed a Virus C a few weeks back and it's brilliant.
It's totally different to the Nord Lead 2x which is a good thing as each one has it's own character. What I haven't tried yet though but will try next week is running the Lead 2x into the Virus C, then into Ableton. , I can't explain how much that excites me :haha: |
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| drogtech |
After more reading I see some light ;)
Right now I narrowed some choices considering hardware synths I am after Nord Lead2x/Rack2x but if I have some cheap midi keyboard with 4 octaves it will be good enough to connect it to the Rack or better buy Lead version? I also consider but its a bit over the budget though :/ the ACCESS Virus TI2 Desktop is it worth to collect twice the money for access or nord will be enought as my first hardware??
The Nord has no fx's right? When we say fx's its like delay, reverb ect?? Does it mean I need to put those effect in my DAW so the sound coming straight from synth is very dry??
Other idea is to buy Synth like Tetra ??
Still looking for some good midi controller for navigation inside Ableton. |
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| tehlord |
| quote: | Originally posted by cryophonik
I had a Zero SL (mk1) for a short while years ago and was not impressed. I would suggest looking at a lot of reviews and ask a lot of questions before buying it (i.e., don't just take my word for it). AutoMap was a giant PITA, was buggy as hell (it may be better now, although I haven't read many positive user reviews), and you end up with copies of every .dll file (the normal and the automap version) scattered all over your hard drive. |
Big +1 there
I had an SL mk2 and a Nocturn and both were terrible. In fact the Nocturn simply wouldn't fire up unless I had it plugged into a powered USB hub on my main DAW, yet worked perfectly fine on my laptop running of it's own batteries. The SL was very, very badly made and in both cases automap more more than useless. I'll never buy a Novation controller again.
| quote: | Originally posted by Fledz
I'm absolutely loving it. Grabbed a Virus C a few weeks back and it's brilliant.
It's totally different to the Nord Lead 2x which is a good thing as each one has it's own character. What I haven't tried yet though but will try next week is running the Lead 2x into the Virus C, then into Ableton. , I can't explain how much that excites me :haha: |
I have mentioned before, but I do think the Virus sounds great. My real point is that it's in no way worth the asking price (for me). The integration doesn't really work in the way that most people who don't own one think it does and it also isn't 'God of all synths' it's often portrayed in the EDM world. If I had money to burn I would buy a used desktop though.
One thing I saw that excited me much was a friend of mine running his Nord Rack through Echoboy and his Lexicon reverb. That's a sound to behold I can tell you ;) |
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| Fledz |
Well yea if you buy the TI. As others have said, get a B/C. I got mine for $800, absolute bargain price!
Might as well ask this now, I was going to take the MIDI OUT from the soundcard to the MIDI IN on the Nord. Then use the two main outs into the EXT IN on the Virus. Then feed the VC normally back in the sound card. Does that sound right? |
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| tehlord |
| quote: | Originally posted by Fledz
Well yea if you buy the TI. As others have said, get a B/C. I got mine for $800, absolute bargain price!
Might as well ask this now, I was going to take the MIDI OUT from the soundcard to the MIDI IN on the Nord. Then use the two main outs into the EXT IN on the Virus. Then feed the VC normally back in the sound card. Does that sound right? |
Sounds about right to me, although I never used the Virus inputs for audio, and never used the C model at all! |
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| cryophonik |
| quote: | Originally posted by drogtech
After more reading I see some light ;)
Right now I narrowed some choices considering hardware synths I am after Nord Lead2x/Rack2X |
I would highly recommend looking at the Nord Rack 3 instead, since it's your first h/w synth. Not only does it have more features and parameters, a MUCH better and programmable arp (the 1,2,&2X have a very basic non-programmable arp), and better FM capabilities, but it also has the knobs with the LED indicators that tell you what the parameters are set to and a nice screen loaded with info. This makes it much more akin to software - call up a patch, and you can see the settings. The 2X has a very basic and cryptic 3-digit LED display that is just barely better than useless and standard knobs that don't tell you anything until you start turning them.
Soundwise, there are some minor differences if you were to A/B a N3 against a N2X, but that difference gets exaggerated by all the "experts" on the web - they're close enough that the majority couldn't tell which one is which in a blind test and even less so in a mix.
| quote: | Originally posted by drogtech
but if I have some cheap midi keyboard with 4 octaves it will be good enough to connect it to the Rack or better buy Lead version? I also consider but its a bit over the budget though :/ the ACCESS Virus TI2 Desktop is it worth to collect twice the money for access or nord will be enought as my first hardware?? |
Whether or not it's worth it comes down more to your needs and wants, rather than your ability. A lot of people say that the Virus is overpriced, but they are failing to consider what you get with the Virus - as I mentioned, you get a killer feature and parameter set and FX that most h/w synths don't come close to including. Take a look at the features and specs of a Virus and compare it side-by-side, parameter-by-parameter to any other modern VA and you'll see exactly what I mean. You also get the ability to route external audio into the Virus, a vocoder, a built-in soundcard, the h/w-s/w integration, etc. Overpriced? No. Maybe it's over-featured depending on your POV, but not over-priced. If you don't need most of those features, then you're better off looking elsewhere, but if a Nord or Novation or Alesis, etc. had the same feature set as a TI2, they would easily be in the same price range as the TI2, if not more. Hell, the Nord Wave (successor to the Lead series) sells for over $2K and doesn't come close to matching the Virus' feature set. Even a used Waldorf Q keyboard version typically sells secondhand for a few hundred less than a used TI does.
Speaking of the keyboard, the Virus comes with a high-quality Fatar keybed, which is highly regarded by experienced players (myself included). The Nord Leads come with a pretty crappy keyboard, considering the price, and it's a common point of complaint about the Nords. But, if you aren't an experienced player, you probably won't appreciate the difference anyway, so it's probably not worthy of much consideration. And, if you are going to use your own keyboard with a rack version, then it's a moot point.
Moreover, I don't think that comparing a Nord 2X to a Virus TI2 is a fair comparison. The 2X was never meant to line up against the TI2 - it's competition at the time it was introduced was more along the lines of a Virus C. That's a much more equal comparison and more similar price point.
| quote: | Originally posted by drogtech
The Nord has no fx's right? When we say fx's its like delay, reverb ect?? Does it mean I need to put those effect in my DAW so the sound coming straight from synth is very dry?? |
Correct, no FX on the Nords. That's fine if you prefer to use your own FX. To a lot of people (particularly in EDM), the FX are an integral part of the sound design process, so it's usually preferable to have FX, but to us old-timers, we're sorta accustomed to not having on-board FX, so it's not a big deal.
| quote: | Originally posted by drogtech
Other idea is to buy Synth like Tetra ?? |
Keep in mind that the Tetra also comes without onboard FX. I've owned 2 of its bigger brother (Prophet 08) and it's really a fantastic synth. For the difference in price, I think the P08 is a much better bargain than the Tetra is - you get a much knobbier interface, more voices, better display, 2 layers, etc. |
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| Subtle |
| The correct answer is both, simple as that! |
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| orTofønChiLd |
| wow cryo is at it again, good advice man, mr master of deals |
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| drogtech |
| quote: | Originally posted by cryophonik
I would highly recommend looking at the Nord Rack 3 instead, since it's your first h/w synth. Not only does it have more features and parameters, a MUCH better and programmable arp (the 1,2,&2X have a very basic non-programmable arp), and better FM capabilities, but it also has the knobs with the LED indicators that tell you what the parameters are set to and a nice screen loaded with info. This makes it much more akin to software - call up a patch, and you can see the settings. The 2X has a very basic and cryptic 3-digit LED display that is just barely better than useless and standard knobs that don't tell you anything until you start turning them.
Soundwise, there are some minor differences if you were to A/B a N3 against a N2X, but that difference gets exaggerated by all the "experts" on the web - they're close enough that the majority couldn't tell which one is which in a blind test and even less so in a mix. |
There are no new Nord Rack 3 to order where I live and I don't want to buy used hardware so It only leads to Nord rack 2x but I see there is some hesitation for buying it?
| quote: | Originally posted by cryophonik
Whether or not it's worth it comes down more to your needs and wants, rather than your ability. A lot of people say that the Virus is overpriced, but they are failing to consider what you get with the Virus - as I mentioned, you get a killer feature and parameter set and FX that most h/w synths don't come close to including. Take a look at the features and specs of a Virus and compare it side-by-side, parameter-by-parameter to any other modern VA and you'll see exactly what I mean. You also get the ability to route external audio into the Virus, a vocoder, a built-in soundcard, the h/w-s/w integration, etc. Overpriced? No. Maybe it's over-featured depending on your POV, but not over-priced. If you don't need most of those features, then you're better off looking elsewhere, but if a Nord or Novation or Alesis, etc. had the same feature set as a TI2, they would easily be in the same price range as the TI2, if not more. Hell, the Nord Wave (successor to the Lead series) sells for over $2K and doesn't come close to matching the Virus' feature set. Even a used Waldorf Q keyboard version typically sells secondhand for a few hundred less than a used TI does. |
Again there is no AV B or C here and if so only used ones, TI-2 desktop would be the only option from Virus h/w synth due it has knobs so its what I am after but damn its pricey!
| quote: | Originally posted by cryophonik
Moreover, I don't think that comparing a Nord 2X to a Virus TI2 is a fair comparison. The 2X was never meant to line up against the TI2 - it's competition at the time it was introduced was more along the lines of a Virus C. That's a much more equal comparison and more similar price point. |
I read that Virus has more digital sound and Nord more analogue if so wouldn't VSTS do the same as Virus and Nord would fill the gap what analogue offers?
| quote: | Originally posted by cryophonik
Correct, no FX on the Nords. That's fine if you prefer to use your own FX. To a lot of people (particularly in EDM), the FX are an integral part of the sound design process, so it's usually preferable to have FX, but to us old-timers, we're sorta accustomed to not having on-board FX, so it's not a big deal. |
Are the sounds in that dry format so good they don't need fx's? or is like you said common thing and producers where buying also hardware fx's I still don't know how the recordings of the sounds work when you use h/w synth ? I start tweaking the sound in that Nord device when I create what I wanted how I put this into ableton in arrangement view? Only by recording the audio from h/w synth ??
| quote: | Originally posted by cryophonik
Keep in mind that the Tetra also comes without onboard FX. I've owned 2 of its bigger brother (Prophet 08) and it's really a fantastic synth. For the difference in price, I think the P08 is a much better bargain than the Tetra is - you get a much knobbier interface, more voices, better display, 2 layers, etc. |
The Prohpet is almost the same price as Virus TI-2 so the obvious question, what is better ;)? but still its pricey but I know that good hardware must cost some money though.
I found some alternative which somehow connect hardware and software but isn't this an overkill just for controlling one Vst? Links below also the cost of the hardware and vst is like buying ti 2 desktop ...
http://www.rlmusic.co.uk/wordpress/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=US8p...&feature=relmfu |
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| cryophonik |
| quote: | Originally posted by drogtech
There are no new Nord Rack 3 to order where I live and I don't want to buy used hardware so It only leads to Nord rack 2x but I see there is some hesitation for buying it? |
Nope, nothing wrong with the NR2X - I had one for a long time and it's really an excellent synth. I just threw the NR3 out there for consideration due to its really intuitive interface (possibly the best synth interface on the market IMNSHO).
| quote: | Originally posted by drogtech
I read that Virus has more digital sound and Nord more analogue if so wouldn't VSTS do the same as Virus and Nord would fill the gap what analogue offers? |
Oh, gawd, here we go. Serious question - what does analogue offer? If this is an important factor in your decision, you should have no problem clearly articulating how and why this is important to you. Second, reading about how analogue something sounds is ridiculous - few people can even agree on what "analogue" sounds like, especially when you're considering something as diverse as synthesizers. The Nord and Virus (and every VA) are digital emulations of analogue synths - they each sound a little different, as do any analogue synths. Go listen to as many examples as you can find and see if you identify a characteristic sound of each synth and, if you can, go with the one you like best. The bottom line is this: if you are hard-up for that "analogue sound", buy a ing analogue synth, not a Virus, and not a Nord. It's that simple. :p
Alternatively, maybe you should do yourself a "favor" and go ask this question on gearslutz.com. Be sure to post a link here when you do because I can't wait to see your head explode after 12 pages of guys who don't even make music argue over the superiority of analogue vs digital. In the meantime, we'll be over here on TA making music. ;) |
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| drogtech |
| quote: | Originally posted by cryophonik
Nope, nothing wrong with the NR2X - I had one for a long time and it's really an excellent synth. I just threw the NR3 out there for consideration due to its really intuitive interface (possibly the best synth interface on the market IMNSHO). |
Shame there is no copy of it, ok so nord rack 2x is still as 1st to consider, this video is very cool http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4aFRVpMwH4 Is there some good way to hear most of the sounds what NR2X can generate??
What about my question concern the recording from this type of synth?
| quote: | Originally posted by cryophonik
Oh, gawd, here we go. Serious question - what does analogue offer? If this is an important factor in your decision, you should have no problem clearly articulating how and why this is important to you. Second, reading about how analogue something sounds is ridiculous - few people can even agree on what "analogue" sounds like, especially when you're considering something as diverse as synthesizers. The Nord and Virus (and every VA) are digital emulations of analogue synths - they each sound a little different, as do any analogue synths. Go listen to as many examples as you can find and see if you identify a characteristic sound of each synth and, if you can, go with the one you like best. The bottom line is this: if you are hard-up for that "analogue sound", buy a ing analogue synth, not a Virus, and not a Nord. It's that simple. :p |
Ok I might gone too far with that question, I was just looking counterargument for virus ti :P
| quote: | Originally posted by cryophonik
Alternatively, maybe you should do yourself a "favor" and go ask this question on gearslutz.com. Be sure to post a link here when you do because I can't wait to see your head explode after 12 pages of guys who don't even make music argue over the superiority of analogue vs digital. In the meantime, we'll be over here on TA making music. ;) |
Well if you dont mind I hope you will visit this thread becasue I will probably have few more question but I need some break I was reading for last 6 hours all I could about h/w synths ...
impOSCar2 with dedicated hardware looks very impressive but for that price I guess its better to invest in real hardware synth.
I really liked the sounds in that youtube video , will the hardware we are talking about produce sounds like that mostly the pads from the first 50 seconds of that video??
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=US8p...&feature=relmfu
At least I have now clear idea what I want and its Hardware with lots of knobs for learning the synthesis and take fun out of it.
I need to choose the right one though. |
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