Originally posted by Looney4Clooney
music will change. Any talk of returning to what was pure is always a rejection of what is new and pretty much the anti thesis of what art is.
This..
DJ RANN
Wow, this thread got juicy.
I'm going to echo what Sys-J, EddIe and L4C for the most part.
I remember J00f playing tiny illegal venues in london back in the mid 90's and I have some respect for him for at least somewhat sticking to guns musically over the years.
Having said that, he complains about EDM being polluted by marketing bull and trend hopping for crude financial gain ((which is most certainly true), but it's not really helped by his rant, which as someone else pointed out is not much more than a marketing ploy to get people listening to his music or personal crusade.
I think some of what he says is tinged with a certain anger that his specific genre of music hasn't been granted that same attention as the crap microgenres that spring up every 10 minutes.
I will also say, that no matter how much certain people think he's a star, he somewhat missed the train for the golden age of trance - sure he was DJ'ing in the 90's but hadn't yet reached the bigboys club when trance was at it's all time peak, so I can see why he'd like a trance renaissance.
The "pure" thing is bull though - If by "pure" he means early trance, then it;s stupid to think it will "come back" somehow. It fitted for the time, but listen to it now (much as I love a lot of it) and it hasn't aged that well.
Also, when trance was "pure" or at least at it's peak, it was so diverse - the argument of going back to purity is a paradox, or at least contradiction in terms, as the music was interspliced (and mixed) with so many other musical influences. Just listen to mixes from that period - they don't represent a "pure" stain of anything.
Sure, I'd love for good trance to come back again, and yes, it's out there albeit difficult to find, but save me from the PLUR hippy bull. IMO, the problem is that real musicians need to start making dance music again - that's what happened in the 90's and what made it so interesting and progressive as a movement.
People churning out homogenized, by the numbers, crowd friendly formulaic loops with obvious commercial breakdowns is not going to bring the scene or Trance as a whole, anything.
Looney4Clooney
i support a rollback as far as the drugs are concerned. Honestly, if I go out and do a rave pill , just 1, i want to be so high, that if someone said the most clever joke at the expense of the jews or the poles, i would not laugh but say something like, dude, i have a feeling that wasn't cool. But not so dirty that light shows are ok. That middle. That sweet spot where I can still throw a glowstick point blank at some stupid tweaker but have this inner calm sans the congenital satire.
When I think pure trance, i think of that German like goose stepping pogrommin ss bull march type trance ala angel of death.
maybe he does mean aryan.
What i do miss are the days where you could go to a rave and actually meet interesting people. When i first started going out, you would meet med students , lawyers, just normal people having fun. But sometime somewhere, it became like this regular thing where people that like to get high kinda just made all the smart people leave. Instead of people that were smart and going places, there is this depravity of human filth in its place. I suppose perhaps the yearly festivals are different. But ya.
Sometimes i go to afterhours in the early ams like 6- 7 am just to get some exercise and dance and man are people just ing stupid. That is one thing i've noticed. OR maybe i'm just on coffee. Or perhaps i'm just way to smart now that it would not even matter. That is most likely the reason.
fuxzz
quote:
Originally posted by DJ RANN
The "pure" thing is bull though - If by "pure" he means early trance, then it;s stupid to think it will "come back" somehow. It fitted for the time, but listen to it now (much as I love a lot of it) and it hasn't aged that well.
I think its pretty pointless laying to much weight with just a word as it can mean slightly different things to different people. But for me pure when it comes to music is about doing things from a artistic point of view and instead of lets say copying other peoples music take inspiration from many different sources and genres and from that come up with something that is you, and hopefully that is something fresh and in some ways new.
Raphie
who made "pure" "old" ?
Kysora
The same people who made "new" "impure"
Raphie
quote:
Originally posted by Kysora
The same people who made "new" "impure"
ah ok....
DJ RANN
quote:
Originally posted by fuxzz
I think its pretty pointless laying to much weight with just a word as it can mean slightly different things to different people. But for me pure when it comes to music is about doing things from a artistic point of view and instead of lets say copying other peoples music take inspiration from many different sources and genres and from that come up with something that is you, and hopefully that is something fresh and in some ways new.
I know what you're getting at but that's like saying that everything he said is open to broad subjective interpretation, and there's no inherent narrative or decisive meaning in what he is saying, which is disagree with.
regarding copying, I don't quite agree either - listen to those mixes from that golden period and you'll hear them all biting from each other but the massive difference is that they combine it with something unique and make complex, thoughtful music.
, there's even one legendary essential mix from Paul Oakenfold in 1994, with a bunch of classic trance tracks on it - from the tunes in that one 2 hour mix, I can identify nearly a dozen tunes that were pillaged in to completely different sounding remixes, some even completely different tracks (like quench - dreams into to Gamemaster) which went on to become classics in their own right.
Also the technology was so much more limited that there were essentially less sounds available to choose from the average trance producer's producer's pallette, and hardware samplers were the weapon of choice, meaning influences or straight rips from other tracks were abundant.
Therefore, the problem is not "copying other people" - lack of inventiveness and doing something interesting with the music.
I have no idea why, but there is this trend to absolutely dumb down melodies/whole tracks, a' la SHM/Guetta/etc - I know it's a commercial thing so that drunk douchebags can get in house, but it's also proliferated in to other genres including trance.
I personally think that biggest issues with trance are two fold:
1, people producing for the wrong reasons - because they want the lifestyle, fame or money, more so than for a love of music.
2, People who have no musical talent producing because it's so easy to do so now (and producing for the reasons above).
The real producers are the ones who will continue to do it for free and are not bothered by the fact they will never make a penny from it. Those little bitching producers (you know who they are) who have dropped out as they're sick of not making any money can gladly off.
Magnus
quote:
Originally posted by DJ RANN
I know what you're getting at but that's like saying that everything he said is open to broad subjective interpretation, and there's no inherent narrative or decisive meaning in what he is saying, which is disagree with.
regarding copying, I don't quite agree either - listen to those mixes from that golden period and you'll hear them all biting from each other but the massive difference is that they combine it with something unique and make complex, thoughtful music.
, there's even one legendary essential mix from Paul Oakenfold in 1994, with a bunch of classic trance tracks on it - from the tunes in that one 2 hour mix, I can identify nearly a dozen tunes that were pillaged in to completely different sounding remixes, some even completely different tracks (like quench - dreams into to Gamemaster) which went on to become classics in their own right.
Also the technology was so much more limited that there were essentially less sounds available to choose from the average trance producer's producer's pallette, and hardware samplers were the weapon of choice, meaning influences or straight rips from other tracks were abundant.
Therefore, the problem is not "copying other people" - lack of inventiveness and doing something interesting with the music.
I have no idea why, but there is this trend to absolutely dumb down melodies/whole tracks, a' la SHM/Guetta/etc - I know it's a commercial thing so that drunk douchebags can get in house, but it's also proliferated in to other genres including trance.
I personally think that biggest issues with trance are two fold:
1, people producing for the wrong reasons - because they want the lifestyle, fame or money, more so than for a love of music.
2, People who have no musical talent producing because it's so easy to do so now (and producing for the reasons above).
The real producers are the ones who will continue to do it for free and are not bothered by the fact they will never make a penny from it. Those little bitching producers (you know who they are) who have dropped out as they're sick of not making any money can gladly off.
Wow, bravo DJ RANN! Well said!
fuxzz
quote:
Originally posted by DJ RANN
I know what you're getting at but that's like saying that everything he said is open to broad subjective interpretation, and there's no inherent narrative or decisive meaning in what he is saying, which is disagree with.
regarding copying, I don't quite agree either - listen to those mixes from that golden period and you'll hear them all biting from each other but the massive difference is that they combine it with something unique and make complex, thoughtful music.
, there's even one legendary essential mix from Paul Oakenfold in 1994, with a bunch of classic trance tracks on it - from the tunes in that one 2 hour mix, I can identify nearly a dozen tunes that were pillaged in to completely different sounding remixes, some even completely different tracks (like quench - dreams into to Gamemaster) which went on to become classics in their own right.
Also the technology was so much more limited that there were essentially less sounds available to choose from the average trance producer's producer's pallette, and hardware samplers were the weapon of choice, meaning influences or straight rips from other tracks were abundant.
Therefore, the problem is not "copying other people" - lack of inventiveness and doing something interesting with the music.
I have no idea why, but there is this trend to absolutely dumb down melodies/whole tracks, a' la SHM/Guetta/etc - I know it's a commercial thing so that drunk douchebags can get in house, but it's also proliferated in to other genres including trance.
I personally think that biggest issues with trance are two fold:
1, people producing for the wrong reasons - because they want the lifestyle, fame or money, more so than for a love of music.
2, People who have no musical talent producing because it's so easy to do so now (and producing for the reasons above).
The real producers are the ones who will continue to do it for free and are not bothered by the fact they will never make a penny from it. Those little bitching producers (you know who they are) who have dropped out as they're sick of not making any money can gladly off.
I agree on pretty much everything you say. What I was getting at from the beginning was how people can take J00F:s blog as something negative.
I can't speak for him and I don't know him at all. But what I reacted on was that instead on focusing on the things he said that was good, people started focusing on that he had no right to say this and that.
I think most people can agree that the EDM scene hasn't been up to it's potential lately. And that's were I think the focus should be.
Were I live the club culture has been pretty bad for a long time, and lately it has been getting almost dead. People rather stays at home instead of go out clubbing, and I can't say I can blame them because who wants to go out listening to the latest radio remixes every Saturday. Now I don't know how it is in the rest of the world but I have been under the impression this is nothing exclusive for my home town and sweden. What this leaves is a big hole that needs to be filled, and thats were I think people with a love for music, and in particular EDM should be.
The good thing when something has reach its bottom, is that its much easier to start building from scratch. And that's were I think we're at atm. This is something that everyone who is into EDM should take into consideration and I think it's a good thing J00F pointing that out. I know he was talking about trance but this hasn't to be just about trance.
I don't know if what Im saying makes any sense and I have a really hard time expressing myself in English but I'll think this is a important subject and I know there's many driven people out there. If enough people gets aware of this opportunity I think EDM (not Lady Gaga) can get recognition by people that hasn't even been aware of it's existence before.
Fledz
quote:
Originally posted by DJ RANN
I personally think that biggest issues with trance are two fold:
1, people producing for the wrong reasons - because they want the lifestyle, fame or money, more so than for a love of music.
2, People who have no musical talent producing because it's so easy to do so now (and producing for the reasons above).
Why do you consider this to be trance specific? Read it again, it applies to ALL music.
Trance has always had this "secretly, this is the best genre around and we're glad we get it!" mentality which I understand to a degree because at one point I was a part of that belief, but now I've grown and gone beyond that.
DJ RANN
quote:
Originally posted by fuxzz
I think most people can agree that the EDM scene hasn't been up to it's potential lately. And that's were I think the focus should be.
Were I live the club culture has been pretty bad for a long time, and lately it has been getting almost dead. People rather stays at home instead of go out clubbing, and I can't say I can blame them because who wants to go out listening to the latest radio remixes every Saturday. Now I don't know how it is in the rest of the world but I have been under the impression this is nothing exclusive for my home town and sweden. What this leaves is a big hole that needs to be filled, and thats were I think people with a love for music, and in particular EDM should be.
I think this is at least common in most of Europe. I know the UK's club scene all but died a few years ago - I was there for NYE this year and the pickings in London weren't just slim, they were anorexic.
Sure, there;s a few smaller underground things here and there but the days of big, good clubbing seems to have vanished there. I get the feeling this is the same story for most of europe -I've heard people from Germany, Switzerland and France say the same thing.
However, I can't say the same for USA or at least LA - the scene is vibrant here and new clubs/events are constantly popping up. Just about every weekend there's some major headliner or some new EDM act playing here, not to mention couple of large weekly trance nights. The scenes not perfect by any means but at least there's a lot going on.
quote:
Originally posted by fuxzz
The good thing when something has reach its bottom, is that its much easier to start building from scratch. And that's were I think we're at atm. This is something that everyone who is into EDM should take into consideration and I think it's a good thing J00F pointing that out. I know he was talking about trance but this hasn't to be just about trance.
I don't know if what Im saying makes any sense and I have a really hard time expressing myself in English but I'll think this is a important subject and I know there's many driven people out there. If enough people gets aware of this opportunity I think EDM (not Lady Gaga) can get recognition by people that hasn't even been aware of it's existence before.
IMO everything is cyclical - At first it starts out underground and interesting, then mainstream people jump on it and it becomes amateur hour, then over commercialized, then not "cool" anymore so the douchebags leave and the real enthusiasts pick up the torch again. Of course, it changes to a degree with each cycle but the nice thing is that things tend re-grow again.
Oh, and you're English is perfect - I couldn't even imagine trying to discuss EDM in Swedish :nervous:
