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Is this a case of obvious song stealing/sampling? (Skrillex the victim) (pg. 4)
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| Seandroid |
| quote: | Originally posted by Richard Butler
Out of interest for all things production, what do people think are the best tools for all the stuttering / slewing stuff?
I notice the same sounds in complextro / dub keep comming up such as;
+ Bit crushed vocal stutters and aaaaeeeeeooowwww sustained vocal licks
+ repeated door slamming type perc licks
+ very distinctive band passed filter synth sounds - what is this specific filter product I wonder. No filter I have is capable of getting the right tone
Do people hand make em, or are these often from sample packs? |
All of mine are handmade. |
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| DJ RANN |
| quote: | Originally posted by Storyteller
oh well, at least it has come to the point where it is like trance 8yrs ago. It's one mass of screamingly loud whining noises. It won't last that long anymore this way. I don't think it will survive summer 2013. But by then we'll have something else to hate.
I do not dislike more recent music in general, just the SHM sound in general. |
Exactly - I just can't listen to it and hope you're right in that it won't survive next summer.
It's funny though as the SHM boys have kind of shot themselves in the foot musically; Another TA (Neurologic) was apparently at a SHM gig recently and when Steve Angello started playing he went with some tech house. The crowd apparently just stood there, not a soul dancing for 20-30 mins until he dropped some cheese and the "fist pumping commenced".
Basically, they've alienated all but the cheese loving massive, and when the next flavor of the month(year) comes around they'll be dead in the water. Probably doesn't matter though, as hopefully they're putting all that money aside for when those gigs dry up (2013 lol). |
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| Looney4Clooney |
| you think they would hit the gym. I mean even snooky lost weight. I can understand if you blow up, looking good takes time. They've had a few years to not look like fat pederasts. I mean at least shave. I've never met them but i don't think they would be very stimulating to be around. |
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| DJ RANN |
| quote: | Originally posted by Beatflux
I'll check out the latest ASOT b4 commenting.
ASOT 560? |
Yeps. I found myself fast forwarding through so many of the bad tracks that I maybe listened to 30 mins total. |
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| Looney4Clooney |
| i would agree. But i think there are some pretty great tracks that i steal from all the time. Yes they are all production but that is really al that is changing in music so i don't mind. |
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| Raphie |
| ASOT has 1 maybe 2 listenable tracks each week, the rest is really not my cup of tea |
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| Beatflux |
""I like EDM when the musical content is high quality and hate cheap shots which at the moment dominate some genres/movements in EDM. Take trance for instance - I was going to the going to the gym this morning, needed something quick to DL that was fast/high energy, so quickly grabbed the latest ASOT.""
The first track was "The Veldt"...I don't know how much more melodic you can get than that. Modern trance isn't really fast or high energy either, not like the old "1998" days.
""What a pile of . IN 2 hours of music, I could pick one or two tracks that had decent musical content in terms of composition and arrangement.""
I agree here, but the radio show is what it is. Every show has to have new content so we aren't going to hear a bunch of timeless classics.
""The biggest thing that struck me was: if you took the FX of this lead or better still the whole arrangement in a given track and played it with GM sounds, would it sound any good? Resounding no.
Try it. ""
I have tried it. I know that timbre is a big factor of why people like certain types of songs. If you took the same chord progression and one version was done with saws and the other guitar, people would base their preference on what genre they like. Timbre plays a huge role in musical preferences, and it makes me suspect that maybe it's not the musical content.
"" I'm not even talking about a qualitative or subjective argument about what melodies are "good" because that's an impossible argument, I'm just simply talking about the number of tracks that solely rely on FX as their wares.""
Post a couple of your favorite melos from old pre 99 tracks.
""If time filters out all the crap, then why are there so many more classics from the 90's than there are from the 00's? ""
People identify themselves with the music they listened to as a teenager. |
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| Looney4Clooney |
depends on the person
certain people do because that anticipation and then reward, as you get what you are anticipated releases brain candy. But some people find hearing new things stimulating. I'm sure you've read Sweet Anticipation by Huron. I remember posting it and you saying something about it.
As a listener , i think that this sort of person is ok. as an artist, it is detrimental to growth because you are inherently wired to be repetitive and redundant. All great artists tried to do what wasn't being done. But the creation and listening is 2 different things i guess. |
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| Beatflux |
| quote: | Originally posted by Looney4Clooney
depends on the person
certain people do because that anticipation and then reward, as you get what you are anticipated releases brain candy. But some people find hearing new things stimulating. I'm sure you've read Sweet Anticipation by Huron. I remember posting it and you saying something about it.
As a listener , i think that this sort of person is ok. as an artist, it is detrimental to growth because you are inherently wired to be repetitive and redundant. All great artists tried to do what wasn't being done. But the creation and listening is 2 different things i guess. |
I think people crave both repetition and novelty.
Repetition is less stressful and in times of chaos people crave familiarity. But when things become too familiar people want a change.
There's a balance to life and art. Ying and Yang. |
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| sicc |
| quote: | Originally posted by Raphie
the "copied" complextro e is Gartners effort though......
BTW this music is where is notice i'm the one getting old. I really can't gell anymore with this .... got stuck/left behind about 4 years ago. and most people are jumping on this bandwagon. |
and a grimy, shallow lame bandwagon it is. |
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| DJ RANN |
| quote: | Originally posted by Beatflux
""I like EDM when the musical content is high quality and hate cheap shots which at the moment dominate some genres/movements in EDM. Take trance for instance - I was going to the going to the gym this morning, needed something quick to DL that was fast/high energy, so quickly grabbed the latest ASOT.""
The first track was "The Veldt"...I don't know how much more melodic you can get than that. Modern trance isn't really fast or high energy either, not like the old "1998" days.
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I said a couple (maybe 3) were OK and it't not about tempo. I love a good 128bpm prog chugger or even lower deep house track. This is about musical content, composition and arrangement.
| quote: | Originally posted by Beatflux
""What a pile of . IN 2 hours of music, I could pick one or two tracks that had decent musical content in terms of composition and arrangement.""
I agree here, but the radio show is what it is. Every show has to have new content so we aren't going to hear a bunch of timeless classics.
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Again, it't not about wanting classics - If I wanted that, i would get one of the million or so compiliations or essential mixes etc - I want to hear new music, and ASOT is the biggest show for "new trance" so that's why I gave it a shot. It's sad that the biggest show for a particular genre plays so much bad much.
| quote: | Originally posted by Beatflux
""The biggest thing that struck me was: if you took the FX of this lead or better still the whole arrangement in a given track and played it with GM sounds, would it sound any good? Resounding no.
Try it. ""
I have tried it. I know that timbre is a big factor of why people like certain types of songs. If you took the same chord progression and one version was done with saws and the other guitar, people would base their preference on what genre they like. Timbre plays a huge role in musical preferences, and it makes me suspect that maybe it's not the musical content.
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Nope, that's not it. You take away the timbre, fine it maybe doesn't grate so much as endless distortion sawtooth waves but again, this is about musical content, not aesthetics.
Maybe it's because I'm an engieer and that't how I hear things. In the studio, we're given raw recordings of every orchestra instrument as well as synths and vox, and also given a basic sounding temp track from the composer and we have to polish those recordings including adding fx to make them shine. I know it's trite but you can't polish something that is crap in the first place; all you get is a nicely engineered turd.
And that's what my brain does in reverse when I hear the dross that is played on ASOT. I reverse engineer it and think what would this sound like with all the sends and inserts muted, and as I said, about 95% of those two hours are just terrible musical compositions at their base.
| quote: | Originally posted by Beatflux
"" I'm not even talking about a qualitative or subjective argument about what melodies are "good" because that's an impossible argument, I'm just simply talking about the number of tracks that solely rely on FX as their wares.""
Post a couple of your favorite melos from old pre 99 tracks.
""If time filters out all the crap, then why are there so many more classics from the 90's than there are from the 00's? ""
People identify themselves with the music they listened to as a teenager. |
That would kind of defeat the point of NOT talking about subjective music choices. Of course people identify strongly with music that they grew up with but a lot of music I really love was both before and after that period so doesn't have any periodic meaning to me in that respect, yet I still intensely value it.
I'll concede that ASOT is not the pure benchmark of the current state of music, but it is the biggest outlet at the moment produced by possibly the "most popular" trance DJ so that has to count for at least a part of the general state of things.
However, back to the main point; so much of the music on that show could not exist without all that FX and weight on aesthetics, as there's no substance in the composition. |
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| Beatflux |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
I said a couple (maybe 3) were OK and it't not about tempo. I love a good 128bpm prog chugger or even lower deep house track. This is about musical content, composition and arrangement.
Again, it't not about wanting classics - If I wanted that, i would get one of the million or so compiliations or essential mixes etc - I want to hear new music, and ASOT is the biggest show for "new trance" so that's why I gave it a shot. It's sad that the biggest show for a particular genre plays so much bad much.
Nope, that's not it. You take away the timbre, fine it maybe doesn't grate so much as endless distortion sawtooth waves but again, this is about musical content, not aesthetics.
Maybe it's because I'm an engieer and that't how I hear things. In the studio, we're given raw recordings of every orchestra instrument as well as synths and vox, and also given a basic sounding temp track from the composer and we have to polish those recordings including adding fx to make them shine. I know it's trite but you can't polish something that is crap in the first place; all you get is a nicely engineered turd.
And that's what my brain does in reverse when I hear the dross that is played on ASOT. I reverse engineer it and think what would this sound like with all the sends and inserts muted, and as I said, about 95% of those two hours are just terrible musical compositions at their base.
That would kind of defeat the point of NOT talking about subjective music choices. Of course people identify strongly with music that they grew up with but a lot of music I really love was both before and after that period so doesn't have any periodic meaning to me in that respect, yet I still intensely value it.
I'll concede that ASOT is not the pure benchmark of the current state of music, but it is the biggest outlet at the moment produced by possibly the "most popular" trance DJ so that has to count for at least a part of the general state of things.
However, back to the main point; so much of the music on that show could not exist without all that FX and weight on aesthetics, as there's no substance in the composition. |
FX are a part of the composition. It's not fair to judge an EDM track on how it sounds without FX. |
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