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Why do YOU like making Tracks? (pg. 5)
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| cryophonik |
| quote: | Originally posted by Richard Butler
L4C - let me know an artist who doesn't care what the world (thier potential consumers) thinks about thier efforts, thier expressions of self. |
If they truly didn't want any attention, they would release their art completely anonymously. No real name or artist name attached.
This whole debate is rather pointless. Of course, artists want recognition. That's not the sole reason most of us make music, but it's certainly one of them (of course, there are probably a few exceptions). That doesn't mean that all artists crave attention all the time - obviously we all need some separation between our careers and personal lives, whether you're an artist or not. |
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| Richard Butler |
| quote: | Originally posted by Looney4Clooney
I am calling your main motive pathetic.
They don't do it to make people like them, they make something, and they hope it resonates. They don't do it to be congratulated.
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I didn't say they do it to make people like em. I said they partly do it so as to receive respect capital / admiration / validation.
At first I was going to write 'I like producing cause it's fun', but thats a skin deep answer, the question is why is it fun, what exactly do we aquire in the process. Fun is a very vague outcome, it's not a Darwinian imperative.
I do experience pleasure when making a track, a deeply satisfying basal gratification but none the less part of my brain is also set up as an interface where one side of the interface is 'me' and the other side of the interface is a wall of otherness being referenced, a crowd if you like.
If I play footie with just my Brother, if one of us does some cool goal or move we'll punch the sky saying things like 'look at him go' or 'get in there my son' as would be said by a thgird party observer, an onlooking admiring crowd.
So whilst the game is fun, and satisfying on an indivdual level, there's also this sense of getting approval from another. |
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| Looney4Clooney |
| quote: | Originally posted by cryophonik
If they truly didn't want any attention, they would release their art completely anonymously. No real name or artist name attached.
This whole debate is rather pointless. Of course, artists want recognition. That's not the sole reason most of us make music, but it's certainly one of them (of course, there are probably a few exceptions). That doesn't mean that all artists crave attention all the time - obviously we all need some separation between our careers and personal lives, whether you're an artist or not. |
um unlike you, people do make a living. That is a motive. To support yourself so you can make more art. I never said it wasn't 1 motive. but as your main one, pathetic. Like a 40 year old trying to maker it in the dance scene. |
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| cryophonik |
| quote: | Originally posted by Looney4Clooney
um unlike you, people do make a living. That is a motive. To support yourself so you can make more art. I never said it wasn't 1 motive. but as your main one, pathetic. Like a 40 year old trying to maker it in the dance scene. |
That's all you got?! Dude, you need to save this crap for the insecure kids who care. You forget that I've had successful careers in both music and sciences, and I have a 4-yo son who knows everything, so I'm used to being criticized by people who actually matter. No offense, but you're just another nobody on the internet. I still think you're pretty cool, though.
That said, I wish you'd bring back your MadForBrad persona. He had just the right balance of wit, attitude, and condescension to be entertaining and put other people on the defensive. L4C...not so much. He tries too hard to impress, which really exposes your insecurities. As a musician, you need to get over those insecurities, or at least try not to put them on full display. |
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| Looney4Clooney |
your career in music is not successful. Unless your definition of success is esoteric and personal. I never attacked your other pursuits nor made any claim that they were inferior. We are talking about music.
If i was insecure, i would play the grand stand. I don't. I have never not said what i think, regardless of who i'm saying it to, knowing very well it might not make me likeable. A , I suppose you could assume that just taking a few examples and making a generalization out of those. But insecure ? The only insecurity i have is that sometimes i worry that i'm not on the same page in terms of dialogue. But everything else, pretty happy with me. I was happy with me when i was jobless on the dole, as i am now. I just don't give a what you think. If i am arguing, it is that i'm arguing not so much an opinion but something that is clearly not subjective.
I would make no case against someone saying i'm a little rude, i dont really give grammar or spelling much thought as I would agree. IF i defend myself, it is not out of insecurity, but more for factual posterity.
But what is insecure, is say you and your music. Releasing as Cryophonic featuring ty ass not quite good looking enough to be anything instead of doing what would be smart, but require someone that is more secure and not in need of ego stroking and use the girl as the artist and just take a back seat. That is insecurity in action. |
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| cryophonik |
| Sorry, it's still not working. But, if it helps your self-esteem, I'll pretend that your cute little attempts at insulting me and the girls hurt our feelings. Maybe you could try insulting my wife or my Mom? That could be fun. :) |
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| Looney4Clooney |
what isn't working ? i'm not trying to make you feel bad. You are saying things that are not true. The sort of motivation you think fuels every musician will only last so long and up to maybe the age of 30 or if you are really pathetic, 40 - 50. And the great musicians put so much time in that you would have to be a ing pervert and really ing ugly to be doing all that work for adulation. Your statements annoy me because they insult so many great musicians that did music because it was an obsession. Not to get tail. not to be famous. And your blanket statement also presumes to know my motives and i hate it when people think they know what i'm thinking. There is not one person on this planet that knows what i'm thinking. I was thinking about dolphins while i wrote that. But how would you know.
I find your pervasive mediocrity annoying. But that is your entitlement. You find me insecure, deal with it. I don't ask you to stop sucking, why would you ask me to stop being insecure. |
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| cryophonik |
| quote: | Originally posted by Looney4Clooney
But what is insecure, is say you and your music. Releasing as Cryophonic featuring ty ass not quite good looking enough to be anything instead of doing what would be smart, but require someone that is more secure and not in need of ego stroking and use the girl as the artist and just take a back seat. That is insecurity in action. |
Oh, and by the way, since we're talking facts here. I typically put the singers name first, and her face and name is always far more present than mine is. The few songs that I've signed are released as "cryophonik feat." because that's the way the labels like to do it for convention and convenience, and the singers are cool with it. Take a look at my music player on my website and you'll see that I list the singer's name first. Not that any of this really matters or means anything (well, except to you, since you are so hung up on this concept), but you're barking up the wrong tree. I have insecurities just like everybody else, but this isn't one of them.
And, as for "failing", I made a very good living over a 15-year+ span as a professional musician without even trying, even though I never had any intentions of making it my ultimate career. I used that income to put myself through two other degrees, then moved on to what I really wanted to do with my life. So, if being moderately successful at something I had no real goals for is your idea of failing, meh, whatever. I also used to be a pretty good skier and raced for years before chronic knee problems forced me to give up the racing. I never had any dreams of making the US Ski Team, either, but I guess I failed at that, too. :( |
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| EddieZilker |
| quote: | Originally posted by Looney4Clooney
But what is insecure, is say you and your music. Releasing as Cryophonic featuring ty ass not quite good looking enough to be anything instead of doing what would be smart, but require someone that is more secure and not in need of ego stroking and use the girl as the artist and just take a back seat. That is insecurity in action. |
Why put (stuff like) this in your post(s)?
You have a pattern of getting riled up, and as though there's some intensely competitive streak that must be satisfied, start going for the jugular when someone disagrees with you (sometimes even mildly). I realize that the focus is shifting to you and common perceptions of you (and at perhaps at a little more of a personal level than is typical for most of your exchanges) but it looks to me like you dislike cryo's line of inquisition and are deflecting from that by attacking his own perception of self. When there is no need for such a tactic, let alone even having to defend yourself beyond correcting a factual misunderstanding, why do you do it, anyway?
The risk you're running with this tack is that you're going to stifle people's willingness to be honest with you. You're posture is alienating and menacing when it's completely unnecessary. It's not that I think you should walk on eggshells for anyone else's benefit and I'm certainly no stranger when it comes to being confrontational and antagonistic but I don't piss on everyone who takes issue with me; even when I have the ammunition to use and the space to use it in.
I'm really not trying to be a dick here, either. I'm not trying to take you down a notch or insult your intelligence. For the most part, I tend to think you have a lot to offer and think the -talking, condescending, and ball-busting humor is part of the enjoyment for having you around.
EDIT: One last thing - For whatever it's worth, I'm with you on the whole motivation angle. I disagree with a lot of what cryo's saying regarding this topic. This isn't about that. |
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| cryophonik |
| That's cool EZ, but I'm guessing that he's just doing the same thing I'm doing - wasting time and blowing off steam to avoid doing more important (but not very fun) things. ;) |
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| EddieZilker |
| quote: | Originally posted by cryophonik
That's cool EZ, but I'm guessing that he's just doing the same thing I'm doing - wasting time and blowing off steam to avoid doing more important (but not very fun) things. ;) |
Maybe I misread the intensity, then.
Or YOUR JUST TRYING TO MAKE ME FEEL STTUPID FOR DISAGREEING WITH YOU!!!! |
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| Looney4Clooney |
| if someone said straight up, i get , i like , so i make more music. I get that. i don't get , i hope i get . Both are honest, both are kinda pathetic, but somehow the second one. is just a little more pathetic because the first example does not preclude before making music. The second one does. |
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