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DJ setup explained...by AVB (pg. 3)
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| DJ RANN |
| quote: | Originally posted by Rodri Santos
By the way there's no real difference between turning up a fader or pressing the play button but when he does the beat isn't matched, i've also a small tendence to press the play button a bit early, something that is solved in the headphones in a glimpse but if you are doing this live... you have to be extremely accurate if he is doing exactly this live props for him, it's the only challenge you face with such an equipment but... probably will switch to cdj2000 nexus soon to get rid of this minor problem. |
Wat? |
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| Ryan0751 |
I think he must mean using fader start vs. pressing play.
It does seem odd to use the fader up to start the track before it's beat-matched, as you would hear it until he corrected the mix using the platter.
I couldn't tell if he has the two extra mixer faders that aren't actually used for audio from each deck, but are merely acting starts for the timecode and audio decks. That would make perfect sense. Basically using 2 channels on the mixer as play buttons. |
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| DJ RANN |
| quote: | Originally posted by Ryan0751
I think he must mean using fader start vs. pressing play.
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Well, that's kind of a given; whether you use fader start or press play, they both do the same thing, and there's always a tactile timing issue - I have a cdj100 and a cdj800 and they both have different response times when hitting play - annoying, but kind of good in a way as it keeps you thinking and given me the ability to adjust to CD decks I'm not used to when playing out.
| quote: | Originally posted by Ryan0751
It does seem odd to use the fader up to start the track before it's beat-matched, as you would hear it until he corrected the mix using the platter.
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I think he gets the beatmatch down on the cans, cues it up, then when he's ready to bring it in, he uses the fader start.
| quote: | Originally posted by Ryan0751
I couldn't tell if he has the two extra mixer faders that aren't actually used for audio from each deck, but are merely acting starts for the timecode and audio decks. That would make perfect sense. Basically using 2 channels on the mixer as play buttons. |
No, he has a custom made cable that is a 3.5mm (1/8th) mono jack to 2 x 3.5mm (1/8th) mono jack (usually called y-cable or dub cable) - this allows the fader start signal from one channel on the mixer to go to two decks simultaneously. That way, both the audio track and SMTPE start at the same time so the visuals and the music are in perfect sync. The only thing he has to make sure of is that once he's beatmatched the track, he sets the SMPTE deck to exactly the same speed with the pitch slider.
I think the two other faders are redundant or he I suppose he could use them for other input sources like more decks, but he's really a two deck guy. |
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| Ryan0751 |
Well that's all fine, but even if he has the incoming track beatmatched, he throws the fader, it starts playing live... you still usually have to correct the pitch using the platter before you really want the audience to hear the next track, or you might want to wait a minute before you start mixing it in... that would really commit you to "the audience is going to hear this, and now".
I know he uses a Y-cable for the fader starts, why not just connect those to say the outer 2 faders on the DJM-2000. You slide that fader up, the SMPTE and the Audio CDJ-2000's start in unison, but the INNER channel faders are what mix in the audio. Then, raising the outer fader is exactly like hitting "play" on both decks, and then using the inner fader would be cueing and mixing as usual.
You could start the decks with the inner fader down, so the audience can't hear it yet.
Make sense?
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
Well, that's kind of a given; whether you use fader start or press play, they both do the same thing, and there's always a tactile timing issue - I have a cdj100 and a cdj800 and they both have different response times when hitting play - annoying, but kind of good in a way as it keeps you thinking and given me the ability to adjust to CD decks I'm not used to when playing out.
I think he gets the beatmatch down on the cans, cues it up, then when he's ready to bring it in, he uses the fader start.
No, he has a custom made cable that is a 3.5mm (1/8th) mono jack to 2 x 3.5mm (1/8th) mono jack (usually called y-cable or dub cable) - this allows the fader start signal from one channel on the mixer to go to two decks simultaneously. That way, both the audio track and SMTPE start at the same time so the visuals and the music are in perfect sync. The only thing he has to make sure of is that once he's beatmatched the track, he sets the SMPTE deck to exactly the same speed with the pitch slider.
I think the two other faders are redundant or he I suppose he could use them for other input sources like more decks, but he's really a two deck guy. |
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| DJ RANN |
| quote: | Originally posted by Ryan0751
Well that's all fine, but even if he has the incoming track beatmatched, he throws the fader, it starts playing live... you still usually have to correct the pitch using the platter before you really want the audience to hear the next track, or you might want to wait a minute before you start mixing it in... that would really commit you to "the audience is going to hear this, and now".
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I do that all the time though, and don't forget, the fader start kicks in at anything higher than 0, meaning you can just bring it up very low, do the adjustments as you raise the fader to audible volume. Also, Armin heavily pre programs his sets so he knows where he wants the track brought in. There are also numerous other options, like turning down the EQ's then bringing those in one by one etc.
| quote: | Originally posted by Ryan0751
I know he uses a Y-cable for the fader starts, why not just connect those to say the outer 2 faders on the DJM-2000. You slide that fader up, the SMPTE and the Audio CDJ-2000's start in unison, but the INNER channel faders are what mix in the audio. Then, raising the outer fader is exactly like hitting "play" on both decks, and then using the inner fader would be cueing and mixing as usual.
You could start the decks with the inner fader down, so the audience can't hear it yet.
Make sense? |
I get it, for volume control etc so you don't just have to slam in the track along with volume, but as above, the fader start will work on even a tiny amount so you can have them play without it being audible.
Of course, you could route the output of the CDJ back in to the inner channel faders to get volume control but I don't like the idea of it being passed through pioneer's incredibly ty circuitry anymore than a signal has to be. |
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| Rodri Santos |
| i don't know what i wrote yesterday, it was late. But even if you turn up the volume just a tiny bit seems a bit unprofessional what he is doing. I've seen him a few months ago and the mixing was pretty flawless so i think i can't blame him. |
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| DJ RANN |
Oh hang on Ryan, I think what you were suggesting is to just have the fader start (to 2 x decks: smpte and audio) on the outer faders and have the actual audio CDJ output routed in to the inner fadre channel inputs to control the volume. That way you can "press play" with the fader start for the two decks (SMPTE & Audio) and then have discrete control over when and what level you bring in as a mix.
AFAIK, that won't work as I think you have to have the audio cables connected in some form to the same channel that you're using the fader start function on. I have no idea why pioneer does it like this and it may not be the case with the DJM 2000 but I know DJM800 and previous models fader start wouldn't work unless you has both the control cable and the audio cables connected up at the same time going to and from the same thing.
I'm sure there would be a workaround (i.e. you might get away with phono terminators) but I sure would make it easier if the fader start could be activated with just the control cable. |
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| Joss Weatherby |
Rodri, you don't even need fader starts to do that. I've matched in cans and cued up on turntables with the fader down and been able to push off on the record and throw the fader and have it match. You just gotta be on top of everything and be ready to make any sort of minor adjustments if you do notice things are off.
It is hard to do, and you really have to know your tracks (and often its not a spur of the moment decision) but it can be done with practice, even on totally analog systems. |
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| Ryan0751 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Joss Weatherby
Rodri, you don't even need fader starts to do that. I've matched in cans and cued up on turntables with the fader down and been able to push off on the record and throw the fader and have it match. You just gotta be on top of everything and be ready to make any sort of minor adjustments if you do notice things are off.
It is hard to do, and you really have to know your tracks (and often its not a spur of the moment decision) but it can be done with practice, even on totally analog systems. |
Yes but even if you can do this well, you don't always want to just mix RIGHT THEN. Sometimes you want to bring in the track a little, take it out, you change your mind, etc. Doesn't make sense...
As for the fader starts... I can't say I've used them on my Pio's. I had tried them out a long time ago on Denons, and fader start was essentially just an on/off switch on the mini-jack cable. I suppose I could try it out, but I'm too lazy to hook it up :) |
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| Joss Weatherby |
| quote: | Originally posted by Ryan0751
Yes but even if you can do this well, you don't always want to just mix RIGHT THEN. Sometimes you want to bring in the track a little, take it out, you change your mind, etc. Doesn't make sense...
As for the fader starts... I can't say I've used them on my Pio's. I had tried them out a long time ago on Denons, and fader start was essentially just an on/off switch on the mini-jack cable. I suppose I could try it out, but I'm too lazy to hook it up :) |
Thats why I said its rarely a spur of the moment thing. You do it on tracks you know very well and its usually "I am playing this track, and I want to play this next track because I can do that cool instant fade in"
Usually its done on tracks where you don't really have an opportunity to match in. |
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| Rodri Santos |
| quote: | Originally posted by Joss Weatherby
Rodri, you don't even need fader starts to do that. I've matched in cans and cued up on turntables with the fader down and been able to push off on the record and throw the fader and have it match. You just gotta be on top of everything and be ready to make any sort of minor adjustments if you do notice things are off.
It is hard to do, and you really have to know your tracks (and often its not a spur of the moment decision) but it can be done with practice, even on totally analog systems. |
I know it's possible as i have said i've the tendence to press play a bit earlier than it should but i can fix it very quickly, in fact is what i do i beatmatch on the cans and when a new phrase starts i press play and quickly adjust to have it ready, then i keep it matched until i want to drop it.
Thing is that i'd not press play with the fader up in front of a big audience, just in case things go wrong like it happened to him in the video, although on a bigger system minor mismatchs are less noticeable with all the bass around. |
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| DJ RANN |
| quote: | Originally posted by Ryan0751
Yes but even if you can do this well, you don't always want to just mix RIGHT THEN. Sometimes you want to bring in the track a little, take it out, you change your mind, etc. Doesn't make sense...
As for the fader starts... I can't say I've used them on my Pio's. I had tried them out a long time ago on Denons, and fader start was essentially just an on/off switch on the mini-jack cable. I suppose I could try it out, but I'm too lazy to hook it up :) |
But if you're only bringing it in a couple of mm, then you wouldn't hear it yet on the PA, then you can check the cans and bring it in (fadre further up) as you like.
Of course, the easiest thing would be to check if the fader start works without the audio being connected to that same channel. If it does work with just having the control cable plugged in (and the audio output from the other CDJ going to another fader on the mixer) then problem all solved - you've got one "dual start fader" and one fader to then control the audio.
I just checked the video though, and it seems he does just use the same channel for fader start and audio volume control - he's not routing the CDJ to the other fader for discrete volume control.
Weird. |
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