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things I've learned in the last few months - got my head down and really pushed for q
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| optik |
quality:
1: the mix is by far the most important thing - and that includes sound selection. Your DAW eq's are perfect for mixing, you don't need plugins unless an effect is required. get the bass drum sounding right in comparison to a reference track - do not skimp on this part, it takes some pretty serious EQ and compression to get this bit right these days.
2: Low cuts and high cuts are extremely important throughout the mixing process - cubase 7+ has great LC and HC built into each channel. You'd be surprised what a 24hz low cut can do to your bass end and mix.
3: There are two things I've found that Hardware does better (well at least DSP) - the Fabrik C and Fabrik R that came with my new audio interface (TC studio Konnekt) are fabulous when compared to my soft plugs. The eq has such a sweet high end and a beautiful 100hz boost that can elevate your tracks, the compressor is great too. The reverb helps things sit in the mix. I've been experimenting with plugins for years, but these two cheap DSP effects blow all the native plugs right out of the water for dance music
4: if you mix right, you don't need to limit much - I use the limiter on the top 1db
5: get a crap old hifi and rout one pair of outs to it - this way you can A/B with your production monitors - the aim is to get the track to sound decent on both, this involves very surgical eqing of the bass end, when you realise you have to give a decent amount of bass from 60-200 hz to ensure compatibility to small speakers your mixes strat to translate onto all devices - the sub can still be there, but you need less of it, which results in louder mixes.
6: decide what's going to use the 15khz range - if it's synths then cut the hats - I prefer cutting the synths at 15khz and leaving all that room for the hats percs and fx.
hope this helps |
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| echosystm |
Uhh... OK. Thanks guy. :gsmile:
FYI, DSP plugins are software, not hardware. DSP cards are just a separate microprocessor. Those plugins would sound exactly the same if they were written to run off your CPU. If you like those plugins, it's because of how the code was written, not because they run off DSP hardware. |
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| Looney4Clooney |
You ain't hearing above 15 kHz
All digital eqs are pretty much the same. Same math , different GUI. |
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| vercetti |
| quote: | Originally posted by Looney4Clooney
All digital eqs are pretty much the same. Same math , different GUI. |
You sure? Some of them must surely distort quite a lot when you boost and others don't. I mean, for example, Pultec clones distort like mother******s when pushed. |
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| DJ RANN |
lol, what's going on Optik?
I mean, nice to have you back and glad to see you've got the production fever again, but the stream of consciousness production posts are a little bizarre. I mean, might be helpful to some but maybe start a discussion rather than ejaculating what ever is in your mind tight then and there?
And richie is right. Only your dog is grooving our to your hi perc.
As for cutting the LF, it, take that cut up to 50hz. No consumer (or even most clubs these days) have the technical capabilities to produce much south of 80hz so it's just harmonic sub mud to 99% of your target audience. |
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| optik |
| quote: | Originally posted by echosystm
Uhh... OK. Thanks guy. :gsmile:
FYI, DSP plugins are software, not hardware. DSP cards are just a separate microprocessor. Those plugins would sound exactly the same if they were written to run off your CPU. If you like those plugins, it's because of how the code was written, not because they run off DSP hardware. |
lol - I know that thanks for pointing it out (hence the (well dsp)) - but whatevs, I haven't found an eq as native that works as well, and you're right, if tc were to release the plugin as native it would (or should) sound the same.. they just haven't.
Looney4Clooney - apparently I can do 16khz (according to a test) but the point stands - if you eq pro tracks and watch them in a decent spectrum analyser, you'll see that there is plenty of stuff up there for the teenagers to hear. It's not the same maths, it's different maths btw.
vercetti - indeed, it's the quality of the algo, something TC are unwilling to give away without selling a chunk of hardware at the moment.
Rann - to try and help a little; finally got my tracks sounding how I want them on my monitors, and in my car, and on the little radio in the kitchen - these are the things I changed that made a difference - things I didn't really think mattered so much before.
my monitors do 30hz no problem, drops off down t9o 20 - all decent club systems do 30 no problem, the key is getting your bass sounding right on consumer and the big club rigs.
and - it did start a discussion ;)
T |
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| optik |
| quote: | Originally posted by Looney4Clooney
You ain't hearing above 15 kHz
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god, ocd means I have to answer this one properly.. unless you can show me an eq that has no roll-off, it's all a bit more nuanced than you're making out.
A 15khz shelf will be rolling off down to 11khz or so.. which I believe even an OAP can hear.
T |
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| DJ RANN |
| quote: | Originally posted by optik
Looney4Clooney - apparently I can do 16khz (according to a test) but the point stands - if you eq pro tracks and watch them in a decent spectrum analyser, you'll see that there is plenty of stuff up there for the teenagers to hear. It's not the same maths, it's different maths btw.
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Did you actually go to a certified Audiologist for that test? Because I hate to say it but those ty ones you find on line don't mean anything. What most people are actually hearing is the harmonics, not the target frequency. If you're in your late 20's or early 30's (judging by your time on TA), been clubbing a lot, done some DJ'ing, played in a band, and/or produced in any studios then I seriously doubt your ears can still hear anything above 15k.
There mat well be stuff above that in a lot of tracks but that's because not many people go out of their way to low pass things you can't hear.
| quote: | Originally posted by optik
Rann - to try and help a little; finally got my tracks sounding how I want them on my monitors, and in my car, and on the little radio in the kitchen - these are the things I changed that made a difference - things I didn't really think mattered so much before.
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That I applaud. I only hope more people do it. There was a great thread by Eddie Zilker a while back where he explained his producing process from start to finish with pictures and a bunch of people chimed in with the same. Thread was fascinating.
I just though the way you bombed this forum all of a sudden with these types of posts was a tiny bit strange but as I said, sharing is caring.
| quote: | Originally posted by optik
my monitors do 30hz no problem, drops off down t9o 20 - all decent club systems do 30 no problem, the key is getting your bass sounding right on consumer and the big club rigs.
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Sorry, but I'm calling bull on this. The Barefoot MM27's state 30hz as their utmost lower limit but I was speaking to the guy who is in charge of technical support for them, and he said it's more like 45hz at best.
Now those are arguably some of the best monitors you can buy right now, so unless you've got some really expensive install B&W's or Quested monitors then I promise you, that 30hz you think your monitors are putting out, isn't worth the papercone you think it's resonating from.
For instance: Do you realize that the free air resonance wave length of a 30hz sine is 38 feet long? Yes, probably three times the length of your room and likely 15 times the distance from your monitors to your listening position.
Good luck getting an accurate reproduction of 30hz in your studio. It's also virtually impossible to reproduce this frequency in headphones which is a large chunk of your market so what's the point in engineering for this?
I'm sorry if this comes across harsh, but this is exactly how audio myths perpetuate. People read stats off the KRK website and before you know it, you can't figure out why those little yellow coned turds aren't making you sound exactly like DJ PaulVanTiestoFold, even though they promised you. |
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| optik |
You're right it was a ty test.. but I would challenge you to high cut your next track at 15khz and release it; you won't because it will sound different and wrong - much to do with the aforementioned roll off
only if you are considering 2.0 monitors, I have a sub in my bluesky system:
http://www.audiodesignlabs.com/mdsub.jpg
I agree about the bass frequency length - they can be longer than the room; but you can hear bass even in a field if it's directed at you.
in a home studio it's hard to get right, hence bass traps and all sorts of furniture placement, this part I'll agree with
I don't think it's a myth to say that some monitors can do 30 hz - maybe a myth to say it's impossible to reproduce without spending �5k
- as for headphones, I think clubs is my market; but you can make it sound great in both ;)
doesn't come across harsh at all; I've learned over the years not to assign emotion to forum text ;)
see - this is a discussion ;) |
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| evo8 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Looney4Clooney
You ain't hearing above 15 kHz
All digital eqs are pretty much the same. Same math , different GUI. |
pretty much - difference is you can get the desired result much faster with some EQs versus others - also like vercetti mentioned some of them model distortion, some of them dont
but you already knew that ;) |
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| Evolve140 |
| Bottom line is that anything that low isn't useful. Better to make what bass range you do have to work with sound as good as you can get it to sound than sitting here willy nilly talking about something that you are making far too complicated than it needs to be. |
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| Looney4Clooney |
It's just not am important range. Thetop guys can't hear it and it doesn't really matter because it ism musical. They just do the standard add air to vocals using an analyzer.
The 250,multiples are what you should be focussing on.hardest part to get. Too many people filter with massive dropouts sad ugly resonances and ty hi hats. Hi hat should have energy below 1 khx |
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