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Does this count as getting fired? (pg. 7)
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| Joss Weatherby |
| quote: | Originally posted by FuzzQi
Also, wow this thread is delivering the goods  |
It's a thread where I am posting AND citric_acid is too... What is this 2006? MSN group chat anyone? |
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| Dykes_on_Jay |
| No one cares about that. |
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| Joss Weatherby |
| quote: | Originally posted by Dykes_on_Jay
No one cares about that. |
You've had so many alts I can't remember when you even joined TA. We're you even here in 2006? |
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| Joss Weatherby |
Seriously though in terms of people who have stuck around here despite large amounts of abuse and harassment probably only IGK is more pathetic than myself and Citric.
Hell even Russell appears to be gone. |
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| Psyshell |
| Ehh no doubt some people are leaving for normal reasons though. If people aren't into trance and don't participate in the dj or music production forums what seriously compelling reason is there to stay? It doesn't necassarily mean they left because of harassment. |
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| Moral Hazard |
| quote: | Originally posted by Spacey Orange
Perhaps she has good grounds for doing it. |
well played. |
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| colonelcrisp |
| quote: | Originally posted by Moral Hazard
Terrible idea in most cases. Most employers refuse to be bullied. Certainly, if one of my reports did that to me I would call their bluff (because there is always a way to get things done even if a key person leaves but there is no way to recover the damage that would be done by giving into a threat from an employee). If your bluff gets called are you really going to leave? Are you really going to walk out with no job to go to and facing an indeterminate period of unemployment? If you are not absolutely committed to following through on your threat (any threat, really) then don't make it. If you make a threat and fail to follow through then you have just shown all that you are a) weak, b) non-resolute, and c) not to be trusted. In short, failing to follow through on a threat destroys any and all leverage you ever had with the person you threatened, which bodes very badly for you if you stay with this employer... you will never be taken seriously again. |
the best way imho, and i have done this a few times already, is to solicit firm offers from other companies and use that as leverage for a salary increase. I have used this a few times now, and i was even able to get a 12% increase during a time when there was a corporate wage freeze in place. Just remember, if you are as good and valuable as you think you are, your manager knows it too and needs only a good reason to get an increase approved. |
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| Moral Hazard |
| quote: | Originally posted by colonelcrisp
the best way imho, and i have done this a few times already, is to solicit firm offers from other companies and use that as leverage for a salary increase. I have used this a few times now, and i was even able to get a 12% increase during a time when there was a corporate wage freeze in place. Just remember, if you are as good and valuable as you think you are, your manager knows it too and needs only a good reason to get an increase approved. |
The key word there is "if", "if you are as good and valuable as you think you are." Far too many people vastly overestimate just how valuable they are. I had an employee demand, not request... demand, a 15% increase. I wanted to fire her on the spot just for having sufficiently poor judgement to make her believe there was any possibility of such an increase. |
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| Jon_Snow |
| quote: | Originally posted by Moral Hazard
The key word there is "if", "if you are as good and valuable as you think you are." Far too many people vastly overestimate just how valuable they are. I had an employee demand, not request... demand, a 15% increase. I wanted to fire her on the spot just for having sufficiently poor judgement to make her believe there was any possibility of such an increase. |
I tend to agree but employers are more than happy to under pay you if you are under charging for your services. I remember over hearing a convo where upper management was discussing pay rates of freelancers on staff. One in particular was charging half the rate of the others. She did good work but unfortunately was ignorant to her true market value. My employers had no problem keeping things as they were. |
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| Joss Weatherby |
Yep, which is why so many employers have unhealthy morale at their companies, especially in the US where the is this strangely subservient attitude towards employers. Workers don't need to undervalue themselves, they just need to feel that the risk of demanding their fair value is enough that they'd risk being unemployed doing so. The fact that in the US health insurance is tied so tightly to employment and getting it on your own is often extremely expensive definitely puts the power in the hands of employers in suppressing the demand for fair wages for work done.
I honestly think it is hard for Canadians to comment on things/understand them in the US because, despite a lot of similarities between the US and Canada, the labor environment is vastly different here. |
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| SYSTEM-J |
| quote: | Originally posted by colonelcrisp
the best way imho, and i have done this a few times already, is to solicit firm offers from other companies and use that as leverage for a salary increase. I have used this a few times now, and i was even able to get a 12% increase during a time when there was a corporate wage freeze in place. Just remember, if you are as good and valuable as you think you are, your manager knows it too and needs only a good reason to get an increase approved. |
Yes, this is what I meant. I'm not stupid enough to just walk in and demand a pay rise. I do like my job in terms of the work I do, the people I work with and its all-round convenience, but I'm not paid particularly well and I'd like more money. So my plan is basically to get offers from other companies that could, at the very least, match my current salary and approach it along the line of: "I enjoy working here but I'm at a stage where my current salary can't match my financial pressures, so if you can't give me a pay rise I'll be forced to accept this other offer I have on the table".
| quote: | Originally posted by Moral Hazard
The key word there is "if", "if you are as good and valuable as you think you are." Far too many people vastly overestimate just how valuable they are. I had an employee demand, not request... demand, a 15% increase. I wanted to fire her on the spot just for having sufficiently poor judgement to make her believe there was any possibility of such an increase. |
It's basically that we're working on a contract with a client that requires extensive contract-specific knowledge that no replacement could possibly know. You could train someone to have that requisite knowledge in a month or two (although they'd probably continue to make mistakes, work slowly and defer constantly for a while longer), but we're balls deep in the contract right now and there isn't any time available to perform that training. |
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| Moral Hazard |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jon_Snow
I tend to agree but employers are more than happy to under pay you if you are under charging for your services. I remember over hearing a convo where upper management was discussing pay rates of freelancers on staff. One in particular was charging half the rate of the others. She did good work but unfortunately was ignorant to her true market value. My employers had no problem keeping things as they were. |
To me, that's just unscrupulous behaviour. I've had a few employees who undervalued their services when negotiating initial salary and since they were new to the company I couldn't properly evaluate their true value. In these cases I moved to get them up to a proper rate as quickly as the budgetary framework would allow; it took a couple of years but got them there as quick as possible. At my current employer we actually have a formula that factors in the market rate, current salary, and performance metrics in order to determine salary adjustments, then we allow managers to provide merit bonuses on top of that. Good employers will pay their employees what they are worth, any company or manager willing to take advantage of an employee's ignorance is simply a bad employer. |
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