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Friday 161: General Strike in Brazil (pg. 5)
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| Jon_Snow |
the way i could explain the statistic about the higher rate after the law is two things:
1. People with a helmet feel more invulnerable, so they ride more agressive and take chances.
2. People rebel from being told what to do an do the opposite.
I ride my without a problem and never have gotten hurt. Although it’s an indoor recliner :o |
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| Lira |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jon_Snow
Am I the only one who’s ok with Jack not wearing a helmet? |
This is the most difficult bit about living in free countries.
Deep inside, my inner hippie doesn't care. Jack should be able to do whatever he wants. However, my tax paying self also remembers that there isn't some sort of "recklessness clause" that exempts the general population of funding the NHS (or SUS, in Brazil) if the patient in question has chosen to ignore general recommendations.
So, yeah, to quote a famous philosopher, "my heart says no but my body says let's go". |
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| DJ RANN |
| quote: | Originally posted by ziptnf
Extremely accident prone with a whopping 2.5 months experience with riding? Good thing you know all about my training habits and routes. To me it seems like you wouldn't know anything about cycling because any serious cyclist who does 50km+ rides on a regular basis wouldn't be caught dead without a helmet. Also funny how you can dish out insults to everyone you encounter but once it's given back to you, you whine about thick skin. I'll tell you what thick skin is, it's being 20 miles into a 30 mile route through hills, forests and flat lands, having a serious accident involving a sprained wrist, possible concussion, and a hurt shoulder and hip and then banging out the last 10 miles anyway.
It's perfectly fine for any of the Europeans in this thread to say "oi m8 I just hop on the old spokes and ride 10km to the pub without a helmet and I'm fine!" It's a lifestyle you and anyone else are accustomed to and you are perfectly within your right to do so. I wish I lived in an area where bikes were so abundant. And perhaps we are talking about two different types of riders here. Ones that ride a leisurely 10 km/hr as a mode of transportation, and competitive ones. I would wager you will find more helmets being worn by the latter. And if you are a competitive cyclist, you most certainly are indeed a complete idiot if you choose to not wear a helmet. |
Agreed, but it's not even just that; riding in any major city you're basically prey against 2-4 tonne cars. Helmets won't do much when one of these rolls over you outright, but anything less, and it'll probably save your life.
Anyone I've ever known that's serious about cycling - and I should preface this by saying I worked in the bike industry for 10 years, am a cytech qualified bike mechanic, used to build my own performance wheels form the ground up and have built 5 bikes for myself from just components, and assembled a probably several hundred for sale etc - has had an accident where a helmet saved them from more serious injury.
My former boss had a car door opened on him while 30mph and he went head first through the glass. Woke up in hospital, Face cut to ribbons to the point he had two surgeries and his helmet in pieces but not a scratch on the top of his head.
My friend's younger brother had a wheel collapse mid corner, I watched him skid on his head, shaving off nearly an inch of Styrofoam on the concrete and all he got was a bruised arm and sore neck.
I could go on and on but not wearing a helmet for riding either in a city or commuting is basically putting your entry in for the Darwin Awards. |
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| Trance-M |
I do have a helmet, but rarely use it. Depends where you ride, how fast you ride and how others ride/drive. On my normal bike, which I don't have any more, I never would wear one. On my mtb only when going off road here in he hills. At low speeds I think the risk is acceptable as I'm very aware of cars around me.
My former boss, who raced a lot when he was young, once got hit by a car when going home from work on his racing bike. He got launched and landed meters away somewhere in the ditch. Had to recover months from back injury. His helmet literally was in two pieces and saved him from worse.
There are many bikers around here, both mtb and racing, but all wear helmets. And many think the own the road...so I'm always careful not to hit them with my car.
Good thing is we have many bicycle paths here in Holland. That does make it a lot safer, except in cities like Amsterdam... |
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| SYSTEM-J |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
Sorry, but what in the actual name of are you talking about "There's actually very little statistical support for the safety benefits of wearing a helmet." |
I'd suggest reading through the Bicycle Helmet Research Foundation website which you've actually linked (http://www.cyclehelmets.org/0.html). It's an impartial website dedicated to collating studies on both sides of the debate, and it cites dozens and dozens of studies casting doubt on the overall benefit of wearing helmets. I'd recommend reading the Analysis and Misleading Claims tabs for a starter. The general consensus is thus:
1. Yes, helmets generally protect from serious head injuries if the rider actually suffers from such an accident.
2. Helmets can actually cause a lot of injuries that the rider wouldn't suffer if not wearing them.
3. Helmets affect the behaviour of both surrounding motorists and of cyclists themselves in a way that increases the chance of accident.
4. When helmet use is enforced, public uptake of cycling drops significantly enough for such legislation to be considered detrimental to public health.
There are numerous studies from several different countries that show incidence of cycling injury increasing after mandatory helmet use is legislated, which suggests that Points 2 and 3 can actually outweigh Point 1 across the spread of an entire population. Hence my original statement. Helmets are better at stopping head injuries. They may actually slightly increase the chance of having an injury in the first place. The statistical jury is very much out.
| quote: | Originally posted by ziptnf
Also funny how you can dish out insults to everyone you encounter but once it's given back to you, you whine about thick skin. |
I wasn't "whining" about you having thick skin, because that doesn't make any sense. I was quipping about your tendency to fly off the handle(bars) whenever you suffer the merest slight, as this thread and indeed this post would attest.
| quote: | | It's perfectly fine for any of the Europeans in this thread to say "oi m8 I just hop on the old spokes and ride 10km to the pub without a helmet and I'm fine!" It's a lifestyle you and anyone else are accustomed to and you are perfectly within your right to do so. |
It sounds very much like this lifestyle never even occurred to you when you made your initial sweeping statements, which is a balance I have set out to redress with my posts. Job done, I reckon. |
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| ziptnf |
| quote: | Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
It sounds very much like this lifestyle never even occurred to you when you made your initial sweeping statements, which is a balance I have set out to redress with my posts. Job done, I reckon. |
I never suggested that it was appropriate to not wear your helmet then either, just that it would be more common to see. As Rann pointed out a couple posts ago, every cyclist I've met has had multiple accidents for various reasons. The guy that sold me my first bike said to prepare to have wrecks.
Since you like always being right, here's a game you can play next time you want to ride your bike:
1 - ask yourself if you should wear your helmet
2 - say yes
3 - congratulations, you win!
http://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/9/3/266
This is a study that showed that rising helmet use was associated with a measurable and not-insignificant reduction in hospital admissions for Traumatic Brain injury. There are other similar studies.
This is the hill you choose to die on, Jack? (no pun intended). Helmets are safer to wear across the board in almost every measurable statistic. You won't convince me otherwise. You'd have more success arguing as an anti-vaxx or flat earther.
Edit: yes I read your response to Rann and it doesn't change my answer. If there is a chance to have an accident, I'd like my brain protected, even in safe areas. |
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| Silky Johnson |
| It doesn't take much to sustain a traumatic brain injury if you whack your melon the right way. As if you'd want to take the risk of living with the lifelong various effects of that when it can easily be prevented by wearing a helmet. Even with that of a "mild" injury like a concussion. A bad enough one can really you up forever. |
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| Jon_Snow |
| anyone watching the hockey game? |
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| Sushipunk |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jon_Snow
anyone watching the hockey game? |
Are the players wearing helmets? |
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| Jon_Snow |
| quote: | Originally posted by Sushipunk
Are the players wearing helmets? |
LOL
It’s a great game. I know you’re a day ahead so don’t tell me who won.
Just on principle Jack shouldn’t give in to you pricks. If he does wear a helmet I hope he doesn’t give you the satisfaction of knowing. |
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| Lira |
Christ, Vegas is pulling it off! :eek:
| quote: | Originally posted by Sushipunk
Are the players wearing helmets? |
:stongue: |
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| Vector A |
| quote: | Originally posted by Sushipunk
Are the players wearing helmets? |
:stongue: |
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