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Nihilists
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| Kirby |
Nihilism is the belief that all values are baseless and that nothing can be known or communicated. It is often associated with extreme pessimism and a radical skepticism that condemns existence. A true nihilist would believe in nothing, have no loyalties, and no purpose other than, perhaps, an impulse to destroy. While few philosophers would claim to be nihilists, nihilism is most often associated with Friedrich Nietzsche who argued that its corrosive effects would eventually destroy all moral, religious, and metaphysical convictions and precipitate the greatest crisis in human history. In the 20th century, nihilistic themes--epistemological failure, value destruction, and cosmic purposelessness--have preoccupied artists, social critics, and philosophers. Mid-century, for example, the existentialists helped popularize tenets of nihilism in their attempts to blunt its destructive potential. By the end of the century, existential despair as a response to nihilism gave way to an attitude of indifference, often associated with antifoundationalism.
I just found out there's this simple word that describes what I'm currently feeling that other people understand and define as a condition of its own! Is anyone else here feeling any of the above mentioned things? I'm not trying to advertise it or say it's good, but I'm especially looking for people's opinions and comments about why they are if they are, and why they're not if they're not. |
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| bassaholix |
I find this a little weird.. you can't be for or against anything.. otherwise there would be no excistence [spelling???]
Its like saying im against war.. but yeah right as iff it won't affect you... |
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| Arbiter |
Nihilism is a strong philosophical doctrine because it is simultaneously very rational fundamentally and yet it allows people to escape the pains they experience in everyday life by doubting their very existence.
Ultimately, I think there are only really two exceptions to nihilism:
1. Irrational self-deception. Religion (with the possible exception of Buddhism) falls into this category. In this doctrine, one decides to believe in things despite not having any objective reason to do so.
This approach offers several advantages: its very accessible (any fool can decide spontaneously to accept something blindly), and also very popular, so you'll find no shortage of people who share your deceptions (and thereby serve to reinforce them.
However, its ease and convenience come at the price of one's ability to reason soundly, for faith and truth can rarely coexist.
The second option is somewhat more complicated, but it is the doctrine that I advocate:
2. One interesting question that I don't think philosophy has spent enough time addressing is "does an idea exist?" If ideas do exist in some sense, do they exist only in so far as they are conceived? Or do ideas exist even which have not been conceived?
I believe that ideas axiomatically exist (regardless of whether or not they have been conceived). That is to say, they necessarily exist, because an idea that did not exist would be inconceivable. Since nihilism is itself an idea, it would, under that presumption, be a contradiction to belive nothing exists.
From this position, one can define his or her existence by building upon ideas and notions towards creating an ideological foundation upon which sensory data from the world might be examined and analyzed. To some extent, everyone performs this type of exercise - the "creation of one's own universe" by the synthesis of self-generated ideas with sensory input. Enlightenment, then, is the extent to which one is able to "create their own universe" without relying on ideas which can not be derived from axiom. |
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| DjJade |
well here is what i think if anyone really cares...
nihilism... well seems a bit lonely to me
ideas existing before they are conceived... well i would tend to interpret that as ideas existing as a possibility [like potential energy] but not as an essence until it is conceived.
from what it seems to me, Arbiter, it seems like you are thinking about construal. as a psychological term, is defined as the way in which people perceive, comprehend, and interpret the social world. so basically it does not matter what the actul truth is becuase people will only react to how they interpret what they think is the truth. this is better thought of through a social point of view in how the actions and behavior of people are concerned.
to me, life is about finding the truth... for me, faith is what i perceive to be the truth. |
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| sash |
nihilism reminds me of the big lebowski
Nihilist: We believe in nothing, Lebowski. Nothing. And tomorrow we come back and we cut off your chonson.
The Dude: Excuse me?
Nihilist: I said
[shouting]
Nihilist: "We'll cut off your johnson"!
Nihilist: Just you think about that, Lebowski.
Nihilist: Yeah, your wiggly penis, Lebowski.
Nihilist: Yeah and maybe we stomp on it and squoosh it, Lebowski. |
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| blazed it |
| quote: | Originally posted by Arbiter
Nihilism is a strong philosophical doctrine because it is simultaneously very rational fundamentally and yet it allows people to escape the pains they experience in everyday life by doubting their very existence.
Ultimately, I think there are only really two exceptions to nihilism:
1. Irrational self-deception. Religion (with the possible exception of Buddhism) falls into this category. In this doctrine, one decides to believe in things despite not having any objective reason to do so.
This approach offers several advantages: its very accessible (any fool can decide spontaneously to accept something blindly), and also very popular, so you'll find no shortage of people who share your deceptions (and thereby serve to reinforce them.
However, its ease and convenience come at the price of one's ability to reason soundly, for faith and truth can rarely coexist.
The second option is somewhat more complicated, but it is the doctrine that I advocate:
2. One interesting question that I don't think philosophy has spent enough time addressing is "does an idea exist?" If ideas do exist in some sense, do they exist only in so far as they are conceived? Or do ideas exist even which have not been conceived?
I believe that ideas axiomatically exist (regardless of whether or not they have been conceived). That is to say, they necessarily exist, because an idea that did not exist would be inconceivable. Since nihilism is itself an idea, it would, under that presumption, be a contradiction to belive nothing exists.
From this position, one can define his or her existence by building upon ideas and notions towards creating an ideological foundation upon which sensory data from the world might be examined and analyzed. To some extent, everyone performs this type of exercise - the "creation of one's own universe" by the synthesis of self-generated ideas with sensory input. Enlightenment, then, is the extent to which one is able to "create their own universe" without relying on ideas which can not be derived from axiom. |
that was a very nice read....
thank you arbiter.:D |
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| blazed it |
| quote: | Originally posted by DjJade
well here is what i think if anyone really cares...
nihilism... well seems a bit lonely to me
ideas existing before they are conceived... well i would tend to interpret that as ideas existing as a possibility [like potential energy] but not as an essence until it is conceived.
from what it seems to me, Arbiter, it seems like you are thinking about construal. as a psychological term, is defined as the way in which people perceive, comprehend, and interpret the social world. so basically it does not matter what the actul truth is becuase people will only react to how they interpret what they think is the truth. this is better thought of through a social point of view in how the actions and behavior of people are concerned.
to me, life is about finding the truth... for me, faith is what i perceive to be the truth. |
this was a pretty good read too...
philosphy sounds interesting i think i'll go read some books
any suggestions out there? |
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| sifntj0r |
| quote: | Originally posted by D.Edge
i mean, why bother with further education? so you can get a better job? earn more money? pay more taxes? then what...get married? raise a family? retirement? then die? whoopie-ing-doo :rolleyes:
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"death is more universal than life, everyone dies, but not everyone lives"
certainly, don't feel like you are out of touch if you feel like the above process you described is in your opinion, pointless. i'm with you all the way. |
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| DrUg_Tit0 |
| I don't agree with nihilistic ideas at all because first of all we don't know enough about everything to come to such conclusions. Secondly, saying that nothing exists is stupid because this situation that we are in right now is defined as existance. |
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| Psy-T |
A: i am a nihilist with only one exception (i am selfish) - meaning i want my idea of a perfect life for myself.
b: you should all see the movie "waking life" - it speaks about philosophy for a nonstop 90 min.
c: you all said some nice things here. :) |
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| Psy-T |
| quote: | Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0
I don't agree with nihilistic ideas at all because first of all we don't know enough about everything to come to such conclusions. Secondly, saying that nothing exists is stupid because this situation that we are in right now is defined as existance. |
try to think of it this way:
humanity is a dream. |
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| DjJade |
| quote: | Originally posted by blazed it
this was a pretty good read too...
philosphy sounds interesting i think i'll go read some books
any suggestions out there? |
well for construal...thats just social psychology. as for like truth and life, try reading on what the dalai lama has to say. any good buddhist book will do : )
seems to me that if nihilism was what everyone thought, there would be no science and no art. every progress that we have made in this modern world is a consequence of someone who was searching for what else is out there...plus how could anyone say that theres nothing else withought trying to find it first? it definitely cannot be assumed and if one actually persues it there is much to learn from this world that we do not alredy know.
i agree that there alot of characteristics that society has that has "corrosive effects" but they are not based on nothing; they are based on human nature. as society gets more complex in the search for organization, ironically everything gets more complecated. one immediate cure is to understand abotu human nature and how they behave in different situations. a long term cure is to realize that we have no posession or need for anything in this material worlf and no need for anything that alters our state of mind or controls our thoughts and behaviors. then what you are left with is happiness becuase you have nothing to be unhappy about... i think the only way to really appreciate antyhing and to be happy with it is to realize that you dont need it. becuae if you are so addicted to it or scared that you will lose it, then that fear and that addiciton consumes you.
i would respect anyones opinion as long as they experiment with it to see if it is right or wrong. but i dont respect but anyone who just thinks something becuase they think its cool or becuase they were told to... im not saying that anyone here does that, but we all are biassed in our opinions and its very difficult to get a full assesment on things, or to experiment in an unbiassed way |
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