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how come?
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| melech_mike |
| how come you dont know how to post - a post??:conf: |
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| tranceaholic |
| yeah i am sure it needs a genius to post..ill repost my thread again.. i noticed alot of people are giving fastmp3 hard time for having the iraqi flag in his sig? why? doesnt the flag represent the people and not sadam..i am sure if u ask an american what the flag represents he will not say bush...isnt this war called freedom iraq and hence freedom of the flag..so whats up with the hipocracy? |
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| melech_mike |
| quote: | Originally posted by tranceaholic
yeah i am sure it needs a genius to post..ill repost my thread again.. i noticed alot of people are giving fastmp3 hard time for having the iraqi flag in his sig? why? doesnt the flag represent the people and not sadam..i am sure if u ask an american what the flag represents he will not say bush...isnt this war called freedom iraq and hence freedom of the flag..so whats up with the hipocracy? |
I guess it’s just a psychological thing for some of us. We are so used to seeing the images of Saddam and his terror regime associated with that flag. That flag represents what Iraq has been since I have been alive - a fascist-hate-filled regime.
When liberating Iraqi's, I think it would be a good idea to change the flag into something new... something the "people" of Iraq choose. Kind of like a mini election (something new to them - gives them a chance to practice democracy before being able to vote on a new Iraqi President/Prime Minister.
To me, the Iraqi flag symbolizes evil and destruction in this world. It symbolizes human rights violations, death, poverty, terror and fear.
What kind of people would want their national flag seen in that light by half the world?
Just seems to me that while they are reconstructing a whole new Iraq, why not give it fresh new look - starting with the flag! |
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| tranceaholic |
| i think that should be up to the people..not for us to pick..its been there even before sadam...so i think we should not flame someone for having a symbol of the very people we r tryin to save..and lives are being risked for. |
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| melech_mike |
| quote: | Originally posted by tranceaholic
i think that should be up to the people..not for us to pick..its been there even before sadam...so i think we should not flame someone for having a symbol of the very people we r tryin to save..and lives are being risked for. |
Guess it's just a difference of opinion:D |
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| Nrg2Nfinit |
Hrmm i dont understand or see the point to this thread unless it is being used to target an individual and set an example.. you're a very sneaky character mike.. YOU are not iraqi.. so dont even talk about the countries flag and what it represents since you are NOT iraqi.. youve probably never been there.. and share no common lifestyle with its people hence you have no idea about its culture.
| quote: | Originally posted by melech_mike
That flag represents what Iraq has been since I have been alive - a fascist-hate-filled regime.
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1)How old are you?
2)That is the most ridiculous thing ive heard.. what if i told you to change israels flag?
very disrespecful thing to say.. a flag represents a race.. and well to tell a country to change their flag.. hrmm ill let you fill it in since you've been so kind in these forums to easily judge people *extreme sarcasm hinted*
| quote: | Originally posted by melech_mike
When liberating Iraqi's, I think it would be a good idea to change the flag into something new...
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*see number 2
| quote: | Originally posted by melech_mike
To me, the Iraqi flag symbolizes evil and destruction in this world. It symbolizes human rights violations, death, poverty, terror and fear.
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no one has the right to die in a war.. not when it CAN BE AVERTED
poverty: can be dealt with by the UN
terror: can also be dealt with in a more sophisticated manner
fear: fear is having your country taken over
| quote: | Originally posted by melech_mike
Just seems to me that while they are reconstructing a whole new Iraq, why not give it fresh new look - starting with the flag!
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I am trying my best not to answer your questions with rhetoric since you have no idea what your preaching. I feel like im talking to hitler without his passifier... see number 1 |
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| melech_mike |
| quote: | Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit
Hrmm i dont understand or see the point to this thread unless it is being used to target an individual and set an example.. you're a very sneaky character mike.. YOU are not iraqi.. so dont even talk about the countries flag and what it represents since you are NOT iraqi.. youve probably never been there.. and share no common lifestyle with its people hence you have no idea about its culture. |
You are right, i havent lived in iraq and i'm not iraqi!
I dont see how this in anyway makes me "sneaky"!
I actualy think i have very valid point here. I'm sure there are those "iraqi's" out there that are terrified of their own flag! They see the Ba'ath Party in it and Saddam as its indifinite facist ruler!
| quote: | Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit
1)How old are you?
2)That is the most ridiculous thing ive heard.. what if i told you to change israels flag?
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1) I'm 21, 5'10", 170pnds, light brown eyes, short black hair, tanned, dimples, a tattoo and two earrings -- interested?;)
How about you?:rolleyes:
2)I'd ask you why, and since you'll indefinitely have no valid point, i'll just dismiss your ridiculous comments as ignorant and pointless. Which is pretty much your trying to do to me, except i believe i have a point with what i'm saying... does anyone else agree?
| quote: | Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit
very disrespecful thing to say.. a flag represents a race.. and well to tell a country to change their flag.. hrmm ill let you fill it in since you've been so kind in these forums to easily judge people *extreme sarcasm hinted* |
Well if you took it disrespectingly, than i apoligize. I didn't think it to be such a sensitive suggestion, i would have guessed that Iraqi's would want a fresh new start with a fresh new image!
| quote: | Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit
I am trying my best not to answer your questions with rhetoric since you have no idea what your preaching. I feel like im talking to hitler without his passifier... see number 1 |
I'm not preeching anything... if you re-read the thread, you will find that tranceaholic started this. He asked a question to the general TA public, and i answered him. I dont feel like i have done anything wrong up until this point to tell you the truth. Maybe you should re-evaluate the situation your bitching about.
Please don't make the misinformed mistake of calling me or anyone else here on TA Hitler again. This is not a joke anymore. Where the are the MOD's on this one!!!!:mad:
I'm testing out a whole new me - one that doesn't get emotional everytime i read a post like this one. How's it going so far?:crazy: |
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| Nrg2Nfinit |
your points are far more invalid than my points.. its unheard of to strip a country of its flag..
I think you should appologize for your suggestion i found it rude and not funny if it was intended as a joke. You can make a point without going to extreme limits.. its obvious you are anti arab and your arguments only portray one side of the story.. what about the people living in iraq that are suffering in this war. You obviously are thinking economically and being selfish. just dispose of the enemy before they can attack.. Why not simply deal with them in a diplomatic method. this is not the time of caesar where mass take over is acceptable.. this is the 21st century where peace should be prevelant.
Have respect for people and their culture.. If you expect the same in return
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2)I'd ask you why, and since you'll indefinitely have no valid point, i'll just dismiss your ridiculous comments as ignorant and pointless. Which is pretty much your trying to do to me, except i believe i have a point with what i'm saying... does anyone else agree?
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how can i take you seriuosly after this comment. IM SURE NO ONE THAT HAS ANY RESPECT FOR HISTORY AND CULTURE would agree with you
its ridiculous and insulting
I wont even bother answering your questions cause i would never ask you to change your flag since it symbolizes your country as the iraqi flag symbolizes iraq
respect that for what it is. you cant change history so leave the flag alone. |
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| Alccode |
I'm going to just walk carefully into this argument, and try to repharse Nrg2NFinity's argument in a slightly less harsh tone. :toothless
melech_mike, I agree that the Iraq flag has some negative connotations attached to it, and that by the "evil" regime currently in power.
However, trying to change a country's flag based on the perceived "message" of the flag is not a just thing to do, as it's a subjective opinion... based on perception.
That is, let us say some people don't like the American flag, for whatever reasons. Actually, let's say they don't like it because it represents an "evil", imperialist regime bent on taking over the world.
:toothless
Now, would those people be right in forcing the flag to be changed, even though they may be wrong, their views may be wrong, or they may be perceiving things incorrectly? Certainly not. They don't know what America is like, nor do they perceive its culture and its ideals etc.
Likewise, trying to change Iraq's flag would certainly be sacrilege to the vast majority of Iraqis. Think about it... there is a highly religious message on the flag, so that would be like changing a religious object, how extreme is that? That would be like waging a religious war!
The scary thing is, some people actually DO have the power to change a flag in such a way, which would be wrong and totally unjust not only to Iraq and its people, but to all nations that claim sovereignity and all peoples that claim a common race and heritage. Namely, unjust towards all humanity.
So if America changed Iraq's flag, that would be one of the most inhuman things possible.
melech_mike you may or may not agree with this, due to whatever reasons, whether personal, religious, etc. - but I'm just showing what I think of it all in an objective manner. |
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| oDrori |
Mike, I'll have to fiercely disagree ... MAYBE if the most part (90% in my opinion) of the Iraqi citizens will support a change of the flag, MAYBE then we (as in any international organization such as the UN) should support it...
I'll give you an example, what if today a new leader arose in Israel, that leader would slowly gather support of people (or maybe even start a dictatorship) and will turn the whole country against all Arabs, and will maintain his rule for over 20 years, and what else? He would be an extremist, he would use Chemical/Biological/Neuclear weapons against Iraq and the rest of our neighbours in the mid-east and would publicly execute Palestinians on the streets and so one and so forth - Then after 20 years of reign he will finally be stopped, and replaced... Would YOU agree to replace the Israeli flag? I know it certainly does have a strong symbolic meaning for you. Just as the Iraqui flag to the Iraqui people means half of their individuality and identity...
You might say that our symbols are not only on the flag, and are also representing us for several millenia whilst Iraq's has only existed for a few decades... I say emotions are not to be measured by numbers. |
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| occrider |
There's nothing offensive in itself about the Iraqi flag. It's simply a bunch of colors with the statement god is great. It was conceived in a spirit of patriotism rather than being built on a platform of hate.
The only time I would consider a flag offensive is if it was forged in the spirit of hate or supremacy. I would consider the Nazi flag offensive, not for what's on in it (the swastika, red, and white), but rather for what those symbolize on the flag.
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In Mein Kampf, Hitler described the Nazis' new flag: "In red we see the social idea of the movement, in white the nationalistic idea, in the swastika the mission of the struggle for the victory of the Aryan man, and, by the same token, the victory of the idea of creative work, which as such always has been and always will be anti-Semitic." (pg. 496-497)
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As somebody mentioned before, there's nothing wrong with the swastika in itself, the swastika was stolen from the Indian religion and placed on the flag to represent Germanic/Aryan history and supremacy. |
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| FuzzyGreen |
| quote: | Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit
.. a flag represents a race.. |
I disagree, a flag does not represent a race. The American flag stands for the country and everything the country represents. Same for the Iraqi flag. |
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